thanks guys, i havent recieved a reply yet from the lady member here about this so i'll add a few more comments and we can see where this goes from here.. also, its hard for me to predict when i will be online right now so i may not be able to keep up on this as much as i would like to but feel free to add any more thoughts you have ..

i appreciate the comment regarding 'gender wars'... its happened to me too at times when i am really trying to understand something and a slip of the tongue gets me in some predicament that isnt very easy to backtrack out of and i think the high emotion of the moment turns what might have been a valuable learning experience into one where a lot of misunderstanding occurs.. its times like this that i feel like i am unburying the dead and turn silent and withdrawn, telling myself that i should have left the subject alone, locking myself into another kind of catch 22...

i dont know the girl well enough to speak exactly what she feels but i perceive it is not a gender war she is trying to instigate and that she is really trying to find understanding about this all, as i am also..

it seems that if we could meet on equal ground, with no intent to harm, an open and honest discussion about the issue would eventually lead us all into greater understanding... its when we say things like "women are like this" or, "men are like that" that we create a division and lose the common perspective that we share (which is that we each are confused about this some)

if we are having a discussion about differing perspectives i have learned it is most beneficial when we can with-hold any comments that might make the other feel inadequte in any degree... the common term is 'walk on eggshells'...

it seems some of us have grown harder edged in viewpoints after a number of these type discussions and in a way become our own enemy when we quickly move to our individual corners and begin tying on the boxing gloves...

in other words, we have conditioned ourselves to expect a battle and we position ourselves from the same familiar vantage points and we shouldnt be surprised when we arrive at the same disagreements...

after many attempts we could learn that the old ways arent working for us and if we can, find a new approach towards the problem, one with less head butting and more willingness to accept the others feelings..

i dont know the girls boyfriend and so i cant say what blockages are preventing a healthier communication between them but it sounds to me like each may need to play the role of referee for themselves and each other so they can work past some of the current obstacles...

Greg, solitude is indeed a balm for the soul at times

praying you each are well..