Pegasus,

I read all of the posts in this thread. Even after reading only the first one, I could have told you that I respected what I felt you were trying to say. I also understand why it made some people defensive. In the past, I would have been fuming, but when I read it today, I didn't get mad or offended. I heard where you were coming from, and respected it. I am not saying that there is no one with depression who really can't get out of bed- if the depression is severe enough, maybe they can't, or at least, it might take super human strength for them to fight it enough to get up, which, let's face it, none of us having....being human. However, I think with a lot of depressed individuals- myself included- we can physically get out of bed, even if we struggle mentally/emotionally to do so, and even if we are fairly drained of physical energy from depression. I think that was one of your points- that we can get up. That it is partially choice, and we do need to realize that we have that control, even if it is difficult to exert it.

I thought you were also saying we need to try to push through this, which is a good point. Making yourself work through it is healthier, I believe, most of the time. I think it's one thing to take some time out to wallow in our own miseries, but another thing to do this for months on end and even years on end. I think it's even important to allow ourselves some recovering time, some time to rest, etc., but if it is chronic, I think it not only damages our lives and relationships, but prob. feeds our depression to lay in bed for months and years, disconnected, never really going out, communicating with others, or doing anything in our lives. I can also respect that we shouldn't say we are literally incapable of getting out of bed, unless we are, and should be thankful we are still capable, if we are. Not to say we have nothing to be upset about, of course.

With that said, I think for MOST people, this is an expression, not meant to be taken entirely literally. I think most folks mean, not that they actually can't get out of bed, but that it is very difficult for them to will themselves to get out of bed. They may be very drained physically, since depression can be physically draining, leaving you tired. They might feel there is little point in getting up, little to get up for. They might also feel a desire to do the opposite- to just sleep, so they don't have to deal with life, and so they can perhaps not think of their worries for a moment. In fact, sometimes, this might be best. There have been days, I've slept to avoid this, because at that moment, it just seems to strong, too painful...and I know if I stay conscious, instead of trying to sleep it off (well, not off, but hoping when I wake up it won't be AS strong), it would possibly be emotionally damaging. I also agree with...was it Lynn P?....who said some days it's better for me to stay in bed, because in my mental state at that moment, I might do something very self destructive if up and about.

People may also lack emotional strength and energy- lack the drive- to will themselves to get up, esp. when they feel getting up is pointless (depression can make important things seem less significant and make you care less about consequences of not attending to those things), and when you feel sleeping in is beneficial. You need your will to fight that. If your emotional/mental drive/energy is beaten down due to the depression, and your physical energy is also, this is going to be difficult (mentally) to do. It can be done, but it won't be easy and many people will just lay there.

Some people also have less responsibilities than others, in which case, this becomes even easier to do, since you don't have...babies, for example....to get up for. I have to say, a baby would prob. be the biggest motivator for many people, since they are pretty helpless on their own, and if you are the only person at home, you have to care for them or else, no one will. But we don't all have kids, and those that do aren't all home alone. I know we all have some responsibilities- even if it's just do get up and help out in the world, we should be doing it- and I accept when I lay in bed, it is choice, but sickness does make it a struggle to get up. I think you realize it isn't easy, though.

Some people, esp. when their judgement is clouded by depression (maybe experiencing apathy, which is a symptom of depression), might shuck some important responsibilities (not saying this is okay, just saying it happens). When Nypheria said, "When your depression is so bad where you do not give a crap because you cant think...." I hooked on that "you do not give a crap". That is part of depression sometimes. And as others said, you feel there is no future, that nothing you do will matter, etc. And you know if you do get up and do something, it will be prob. be shoddily done in that mind state, so you feel even less like trying (esp. if you're a perfectionist and figure if you ain't gonna do it perfect, why bother?).

Also, I have to agree that, while I personally am just a weak *&^ and should get up, some people have been through some really horrible stuff, and I can understand them just giving up and going into voluntary extended sleep-comas.

BillieJ said, "Finally, I think it is possible that this form of retreat and immobility may reflect a passive form of suicidal behavior, particularly when accompanied by inability to eat. This does not mean that suicide results but only that the person is taking flight from life, insofar as is possible without committing an active act." I agree with this. Often times I think there is this thought or desire to just sleep life away. To escape life through unconsciousness, and sometimes you think you could lay there forever until you're dead. If people aren't eating or caring for themselves, it also seems more like a passive suicide attempt. Otherwise, maybe it's just the desire to escape, and perhaps, to a degree, to die, for some. Thankfully, unlike killing yourself, you can recover from this.

Someone said something about, they would starve if they didn't get out of be. As Billie has pointed out, some people laying in bed are starving themsleves, too. So for some people, this is no deterrent. But of course, knowing you have only yourself to depend on is a motivator for doing something that might help some people.

Anyway, as for my personal experience, I once spent a Summer in bed back in my younger years. I hardly ever showered because it would mean getting out of bed for awhile (a fair amount of time since collected filth takes longer to clean off, and I also had OCD, so cleansing took me awhile, anyway) and it would have required effort. Since I wasn't showering, I didn't change clothes. I got up to use the bathroom when I'd put it off as long as I could. I ocassionally ate, but I didn't eat often because I was unconscious most of the time. After each small, ocassional thing I did, I went straight back to bed. I even ate the food in bed, returned the plate to the kitchen, got back in bed and went unconscious (or did I take the plate back?). I hardly ever left the house, and when I did, it was about the only time I showered. When I returned, I crawled back into bed. It was selfish to do so when I could have been helping out in the world, checking on friends, etc., but I didn't have a job at the time, and school was out, so there were some responsibilities that you have that weren't nudging me to get up. I don't know what I would have done in a diff. situation. I do know that if I sleep that long now, I get a headache, but at the time, I could sleep almost constantly, and it never seemed to be too much sleep. Most people in school try to have fun during the Summer instead of wasting it and throwing it away, because they know soon they'll be back in class. It was supposed to be fun time, but I was depressed, and I just spent my vacation and fun time, unconscious for the most part. It lasted for the entire Summer, from what I recall. People thought I was sick physically, but it was nothing like that. It was all emotional/mental.

Although I think the way in which you worded it will cause some people to act too defensively to really hear you and get what you are saying, I understand that you are making the point that those of us who are capable of choosing to get up and push on- even if it is a huge struggle- need to try our absolute hardest to do so, because as difficult as it is, if we can choose to push through it, we need to acknowledge that power that we have and use it...... because it could benefit us to do so, and as long as we have choice and capability, we have responsibility to do so and we need to accept that. We have to accept it, to change anything. Before anyone jumps me, please note that I am not judging you, and please take notice that when I am talking, I am NOT referring to EVERYONE with depression or MI. Also, you might want to note that, I don't really push through like I should and could. I just know I need to- and can. But it is hard.