I have read your links Down and find the information disturbing. It did appear that these places were using mind control technigues and abuse. I am however a fan of outward bound for kids and adults as we can learn skills that would benefit all of us. Unfortunately I have never had the money for that experience. When my daughter (whom most of you are aware, at 17 has moved in with her boy-friend and family) was getting out of control I asked the adoption agency if there were a special outdoor camp for kids like her and they said NO, NONE that taught true life skills. Hmm, that's my state. I also want to say that maybe even currently there is an all year round outdoor school where kids camp even in the winter and have class rooms as well as work from the outdoors. These kids are all sentenced to this place. The profile is/was always low. I went for a job interview there once a million years ago but I am still quite certain they are active. Their approach seemed to be in teaching personal responsibility to offending youths through a difficult-day to day existance in the wilderness. No opinion here, don't know enough.