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I'm not judging Dreamseeker. I'm warning her that her T engaged in a behavior that most T's consider unethical (look it up--non-erotic kissing). What's ethical or not is subjective in the sense that it comes from individual opinion and not everyone agrees on what is or isn't ethical. Some T's think having sex with a patient can be beneficial sometimes. I know I thought it would be at various points with my female T, but it wouldn't have been. Behavior can be unethical in an objective sense in which it is prohibited in some formal code of conduct rules T's are subject to, e.g. having sex with patients. Every code declares it as inappropriate.
Some (very few, but some) T's won't shake hands with patients b/c they think it's unethical. Some T's--a fair proportion--won't hug clients seeing it as unethical. I had one like that. Some T's refuse to give clients a free session or a discount b/c they think it's unethical. Many, many things are viewed as unethical that seem very simple, non-controversial to most of us.
Non-erotic kissing is very uncommon, though seen as ethical by those who do it, but it is more common among one type of T: The kind who end up engaging in a sexual relationship with patients. There are common behavioral patterns amongst those kinds of T's, and those behaviors almost always start off seemingly innocently. Neither T nor patient might be aware of something being amiss and most often patients like it as first. The special attention issue is what's common to this phenomenon. Some T's think holding sessions that run overtime is unethical; it's a common early behavior for relationships that end up going wrong.
What these have in common almost always is clients like it at first--often very pleased with it and excited. The presence of those feelings doesn't indicate that it's necessarily good. Very few T's outright assault patients to start off.
BlueMoon "I wonder, Sunflower, how much information you really have about Dream's relationship with her therapist, just how many posts of Dream's you have actually read over the last 6 months to understand precisely why and what her therapist is showing her, teaching her and giving to her. I think when we read other people's stories and struggles it is up to us to keep our own ethics in check and suspend judgement knowing full well that we could not possibly have all of the information needed to reach such conclusions."
Dreamseeker9: "Again, I appreciate the concern, but what exactly is it a red flag for? Do you think my T is going to seduce me? Hardly! ....Being surprised in the moment is far different than being confused - it can lead to confusion, but it didn't for me. And even though I am vulnerable in therapy, that doesn't mean that I won't stand up for myself if T does something I consider inappropriate. I see no reason to address this one kiss - I know what spirit it was given, and that's all that matters to me."
Bluemoon and Dreamseeker, no Dreamseeker, you do not know what it's all about. You think you know. You might be right, you might be wrong. You don't know what's going on in your T's head (unconscious in particular) or entirely within your own--unconsciously it might mean more to you in ways you don't yet recognize. No one has "all the information" b/c of the unconscious motivations, thoughts, and feelings we have. Maybe the T does have bad intentions. Maybe she's trying to meet needs of her own by doing this, needs that she's not supposed have met by patients. But you can’t know for certain what’s going on in someone else’s head.
Bluemoon: "And above all, that in the end, it is our job to keep the focus on ourselves and our own struggles, without pointing out what we may believe someone else has not seen yet or inferences about protesting too much. How much do you really know about what Dream has seen yet? "
This happens with almost every response to every post. That's what we do here--comment on T's and poster’s behavior, thoughts, and feelings. If we just focused on ourselves, why even come here? We come here to share, which includes—with almost every post—feedback from others.
"Dream- I do hope you will take your responses with a grain of salt and understand that in a public forum like this people may respond out of reflex and ingnorance. Not knowing or understanding a relationship and then giving advice. Relationships, especially therapeutic ones, are more complex than that and I hope you understand that not everyone takes that truth into account when responding. They like to show you that they know better."
It's not ignorance to have great familiarity with codes of ethics and conduct and to have read widely about therapy ethics issues like I have. Not being familiar with those things and not recognizing that a kiss of any sort is a major red flag is ignorance. I'm not trying to show I know better, I'm trying to warn. I don't go as far as suggesting reporting the T because of this--though some people would do so, and I don't see anything wrong with that--but I do think the responsible thing to do for me is to point out how this could indicate major trouble ahead, which of course no one knows what would come of this. Maybe nothing harmful in any way, maybe it's a first step down the road to sexual exploitation of psychological harm for Dreamseeker. Time will tell.
Echoes: "Not every opinion needs to be said out loud. Let's not be kill-joys."
No, but I can't imagine any opinion that should be said out loud more than to point out what fits the patterns of exploitative, inappropriate, unethical behavior by T's, esp. in sexual terms.
How many times have members here offered support to posters who have been exploited in an intimate way, posters who are sufferign greatly? Some of them refuse to acknowledge the problems, say they like, yet most here try to explain to them it's wrong. I’d rather warn early than counsel later, given the choice.
Many members here are aware of possible ethical concerns with sorts of situations like the kiss, and I'm baffled they're not posting.
Dreamseeker, maybe nothing will go wrong with your therapy, but a kiss is very uncommon and commonly thought of as an ethical violation or at least a step down the road of a major one. That's all. We don't know, we just can offer opinions and warnings and I don't feel wrong in doing so.
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out of my mind, left behind
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