Perhaps AkAngel needs to learn to write better. What that line that you seem to be so offended by meant was, that neither my wife nor I would mind if we touched each other that way. I was making a differentiation between her husband's habit of touching her and her husbands habit of abuse. Touching isn't abuse - even touching 'down there'. Violating boundaries is abusive, whether or not is has anything to do with touching or not. It seemed to me that the responses seemed to meld these two together and decided that if any man touched you 'down there' while you were bending over - it was abuse, whether or not one had placed a boundary or not. Comments like, "I hate it when men who that... touch you when you are trying to get things done." seemed to skip over that differentiation.

As for the line, "because since I've been abused, I don't even know what's normal anymore." Dragonfly was ambiguous here as to whether the abuse she is referring to happened in her family of origin or her husband. While I think I was clear enough when I said, "Touching ones wife in a way she says makes her uncomfortable and after she has asked you to stop DOES make one abusive..." I still don't know whether the abuse that led to not knowing what is normal is a result of something that happened in the marriage or not.

My point was this, if I finger my wife every time she bends over, that doesn't make me abusive or a sex addict; my wife welcomes it. It becomes abusive ONLY when someone tells someone else not to and they keep doing it.