From your posts, I can't tell whether most of the people on PC are doing okay with their income and expenses or not. I'm talking just about getting a mental grip on what they are. My numbers frighten me so much that I can't even concentrate on them. The anxiety level goes sky-high. At some point, before the end, everything goes kind of squirrely in front of my eyes and I can't force myelf back together to get a grip on it. I have no cigarettes or liquor that usually help but for a day or two there won't be any money at all. I just found out today that I missed out on possible odd jobs by filing a certificate late. That's the kind of stuff I do. We don't have any money to hire a lawyer. And we'd like to stay in the house. That means Chapter 13 and paying out to creditors, when we don't have a dime over expenses available. Just facing this stuff is almost more than I can do. Without social security we'd have long ago lost everything, house included.