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Originally Posted by lynn P.
Have you tried to find out from a therapist why you turned out to be like this? How was your childhood - did you have an overly domineering parent? Are you afraid of others controlling you? How would you react, if you encountered someone who wanted to victimize/control you? Maybe you're afraid of losing control and that's why you want it so bad.
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No to the therapist. When I felt like I needed one I didn't feel comfortable going to one. The idea occurred to me a lot though.
Did I have domineering parents? That is a very hard question to answer.
I've been sitting here for half an hour now thinking this over.
Yes, I did. My father was domineering. But, even when I was 5, he never managed to get anywhere with that. He would tell me something I should do, at which point I would tell him "no", at which point he would raise his voice, and if it escalated, spank me, but if I said "no" I meant "no", and that no would not turn into a yes.
There was no way to get me to do something I did not want to do without convincing me that it was what I wanted to do.
At times it was a war zone. At other times, as a child, I was the emotional support for my mother. One of my earliest memories is of telling my mother, who was stressed out with school at the time, that everything would be alright, and letting her cry on my shoulder.
By the time I was in my teenage years I raised my parents, rather than the other way around. I continued to support my mother emotionally, I acted as a moderator and mediator for them. I realized my father had some type of mental disorder, something along the line of aspergers. He would need routine like other people needed air to breath. Anything outside of his routine would send him into a panic. He also couldn't relate to anyone, so, he was hard to live with. My mother left him for a few years, at which point, I took over her job, making sure he ate, making sure the clothes were laundered, until I moved out. At which point he lost enough weight to be nothing but skin and bones until my mother moved back in.
Strangely enough I am not afraid of others controlling me. I function best in a structured environment with clear hierarchies.
But victimizing me... that triggers me. I grew up as part of the counter culture. I was the German equivalent to a hippie. People have tried to to victimize me, through physical violence. When I was 15, at one point two guys pinned me while a third kept kneeing my groin. I don't remember why. I fell to my knees when they let me go, and when I got up, I was in that mindspace. The "baring my teeth" mindspace. That part surfaced and took over completely. They thought I was done, and it was over. It wasn't, and it would never ever be over. Not as long as there was air in my lungs.
Using a broad brush stroke, on a cultural level violence is to a German something vile, and what I did then was escalate the violence to levels shocking to everyone around us at a core level. People were too stunned to interfere.
When my emotions came back a few hours later, while I got the hand I broke against the other guys face patched up, I was euphoric.
I've been writing this post probably for 3 hours now. Thinking about the answers, remembering back.
What dominance within a relationship gives me is security.
Because she submits to me I feel safe with her. I feel safe to tell her everything. I can trust her completely. I can open up wholly. There is nothing about me my slave doesn't know. I know that she would not, would never, could never hurt me, use me or harm me.
Ultimately, that is the highest gift it could have given me, this power exchange. The ability to wholly give myself over, open and trust without reservation.
I don't think I can be happy in a relationship without this power exchange anymore.
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How do you tell that you're actually reading the other person, not imposing your preconceptions on them?
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That is a good question.
I tried to explain this before. To our third. He asked me once what my thought process was. If I think about something consciously before I decide what impact what I will do will have on his wife, my slave. He asked about his wife rather than himself because I told him on many occasions that him I cannot read at all. He is an enigma to me.
In any case, after a month I understood his wife of 10 years better than he did.
One example that comes to mind is when he outed our triad. He felt happy, wanted to share the happy, and told someone why he was happy. Without telling us first. He thought that she was angry at him because he did something that she said she didn't like, even though she never outright told him not to do it. He thought she was angry at him because she felt disrespected, when it was clear to me that she wasn't angry at all. She looked angry. She sounded angry, but in truth, she was terrified of the potential consequences of our outing to someone she didn't know.
But... ok. What is reading. I think there are two answers to this that complement one another. Emotional, and primal.
On one hand, reading means being able to tell what another person feels. I don't believe in supernatural phenomena, so, when I have an empathic connection to someone what I imagine must really be happening is that I am able to relate to that person, put myself into their shoes and see the world from their perspective. Sometimes that happens very fast, sometimes it takes a while, sometimes it doesn't at all. He is at the end of the spectrum most removed from my own experiences. With him, it took a very long time for a single moment.
As an introvert it is very hard to put yourself into the shoes of a complete extrovert. The difference in perception is so different we might as well be of a different species. It took half a year until I had one moment of empathic connection with him, and that was at the height of a scene, when he finally expressed emotion coming from deep within through a cathartic release. It was such a beautiful moment. And then he apologized for it a few minutes later, for being emotional, and that connection was cut.
So, there is a limit to that ability to relate.
Then there is the part I attribute to the primal side, reading body language cues on an instinctual level. And that part is just really hard to explain, but, it's there.
See also:
(I can't post links. google search the grayson / stein study)
I do not believe that this perception is limited to victim selection, it's just what the study limited its focus on.
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2. I've occasionally, in my teens and twenties especially, had others form preconceptions of me, then found myself playing along and even cultivating the image they had of me in order to be halfway accepted and not make waves. If someone I considered more knowledgeable than myself speculated that I was unconsciously thinking or wishing something, I'd go out of my way first to dredge up evidence that they might be right, then to rely on their conclusion for guidance on what I should do next. How do you tell whether or not the people you "read" are eager to play along and make you right?
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That happens, and I would be lying if I said that in the past I didn't use that to my advantage when it did. The way I see it it's all part of people wanting to be told what to do, what to think, how to act, who to be. Unsure of their own identity. Trying to find a place for themselves and someone telling them here is their place and everything will be alright.
But those aren't the only people I dealt with. The woman I spent 8 years of my life with was 40 when we met. She was 20 years my senior. She lost two husbands, raised two children by herself, and took crap from nobody. She was nicknamed the tank. The reason we clicked was, on some level, she wanted someone to be "the man" for her, in a very traditional gender role type of way, someone to take some off her load, and I wanted to take that load.
And her son, the boy I raised to adulthood, he was just entering puberty. Also someone who thought by default that everyone around him was wrong about everything.
I believe I can read people because I was able to make both of them feel understood, feel known, and made myself understood to them. I was able to relate to them and communicate with them on an emotionally meaningful level.
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We-e-e-e-ell, OK... but what if we were to forget about your "type" and approach you as a unique individual instead?
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You'd be welcome to.
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You stopped reading the DSM too soon, for it says:
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I'm not basing that on the DSM. I'm basing it on the professional opinion of
this man (can't post links. google search the wiki page of roy hazelwood), who has seen countless men treated. I read some of him, and I have to say, I think this man is quite brilliant, and even though he, I believe, only dealt with those that were criminal, on the far end of the spectrum, I think the points he makes can be counted to be at the highest expert level.
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Firstly, where does one find bdsm enthusiasts? Do you all advertise on Craigslist, or meet on Wednesdays at the community center after the book club and PTA meeting? I ask for research purposes, not an interest in participating.
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I live in a city. There are about 4 clubs within 30 minutes of walking distance, though sadly the only one dedicated to it full time burned down a while back, and it doesn't look like it will be making a return. It was a small place with a very friendly atmosphere. It's a very close knit community. The place itself was basically a small restaurant with a pool table, a dart board, a bar, a spanking bench and a St Andrews cross. Fun, friendly, cozy, harmless.
I was registered at on a few forums for a while, but German websites require you to register yourself for age verification purposes. This requires from me, in order to be able to access adult content, that I leave a copy of my ID, real name and address, at a third party. A third party that is also aware of what adult content it is that I am accessing. I was never willing to do that. Few people are, hence the online community here is anything but thriving.
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So, how much of a role does empathy play in your relationship and those especially deviant desires? Do you have a normal relationship with your partner aside from S&M?
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Yes and no. It's a power exchange relationship. The power exchange is constant. But I am not constantly "bearing my teeth". When there is a decision that needs to be made I am referred to. Think of it like a father figure. Even though the father doesn't make his authority felt at all times, it's always there. Empathy plays into this in such a way that when I make decisions I base them on what I think would be best for them. To them, my happiness is theirs, and to me, their happiness is mine.
I haven't really taken control in a long time though. A month or so we're running on autopilot now. I'm dealing with a lot of things right now that rob me of my strength. There is nothing left of me that can give. One of the downsides of this relationship. I am their pillar. Me, without strength, that sends them into a place where they themselves get insecure and can't offer me support. Though, to be fair, they are getting better at it. They are trying.
A lot of things. Grief, for one. The most. My ex had a child she didn't tell me about until after the cremation, thinking she was doing me a favor by not using a child to get me to come back. I wish she would never have told me. I think part of why I am doing this here, now, actually.... part of why I am focused on this aspect, now.... is ... avoidance...
...... hm
You can run, but you can't hide from yourself. *sighs*