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Old Jan 05, 2006, 10:02 AM
JustBen JustBen is offline
Grand Poohbah
 
Member Since: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,562
First off, everyone needs to stop over-analyzing everything I say just because I'm an admin I'm also a member here, and I'm entitled to write stupid things once in a while just like everyone else.

Now, on to business.

Point 1: The simplification of the cognitive model is perhaps part of 'dumbing down' of the mentally ill.
Counter: I disagree. When I go to the mechanic, I don't expect "the truth". I expect a very simplified explanation of the problem in terms I understand. A full explanation of the internal combustion engine, though it would make me a more informed consumer, would be unhelpful and, quite frankly, a waste of my time. Most people that come to counseling for the first time are very distressed, and in my experience are in no mood to take a psychology class. It's not a matter of whether or not they can understand it--I'm sure most could--it's just a matter of whether or not it's helpful. In most cases, I don't think it is.

Point 2: Hmm. But what is an irrational person if it is not a person who is inclined to irrational beliefs / feelings / behavings?
Counter: Am I "inclined to irrational beliefs" simply because I have this one irrational belief? Am I "inclined to irrational beliefs" even if I have ten such phobias? I think not. When you look at all my millions of beliefs ("I believe my wife loves me", "I believe the gas pedal in my car is on the right", "I believe that my furnace heats my house in the winter") you'll see that the overwhelming majority of them are perfectly rational. That holds true for most people, even those that erronously call themselves "irrational". A problem that seems to occur with many people who suffer from mental illness is that they tend to label themselves negatively based on a few negative beliefs/thoughts/experiences but they don't label themselves positively no matter how many postive beliefs/thoughts/experiences they have.

Point 3: What is the CBT answer? Because you endorse some 'irrational' belief or other? How is this an explanation? Doesn't it shuffle it back one step... Why do I endorse this 'irrational' belief whereas others do not?
Counter: Yes, it does shuffle back one step. Often, that's the best way to arrive at an answer. You keep moving back one step until you can't move back anymore. Most of the time, however, this searching for "first causes" doesn't actually help people all that much--at least in mental health. CBT presents and automatic thought arising from an intermediate belief arising from a core belief that arises typically from some childhood experiences. The question that I think is most important, however, is what actually helps? I've been helped with several problems where neither the therapist nor I have any idea what the "first cause" was, and it simply didn't matter.

Point 4: Why is your fear irrational?
Counter: Because there is very little chance that I will actually ever be involved in a plane crash. I accept my phenomenological perspective as valid, but I also believe in an objective reality. When my perspective fails to adhere to objective reality, in those areas I am irrational. (Of course, most CBT folks are confused about objectivist and subjectivist views of the world to begin with, so I don't want to open that can of worms.)

Point 5: "A good CBT therapist would recommend them too--hence the 'B' in CBT." Yes. Though not in strict 'cognitive therapy'
Counter: Cognitive therapy is cognitive in conceptualization and cognitive and behavioral in execution. The preceeding is a paraphrase of A. Beck from the 1960's. Behavioral work has been part of "strict cognitive therapy" from the very beginning.

Much more to write, but my fingers tire