Hi Swimjim,

Don't have much time to reply but I'm sure we could share email addresses somehow or use the private messaging capability. I know how hard it can be when still in contact with them. They have such a power over us to make us feel we are the problem, not them. Then we feel guilty that we didn't give them enough of a chance. I found it helpful to write a list of all the bad things they said or did in the relationship and tape it up where you can read it. It will remind you why you need to remain tough and not forget about your needs. To answer your question: my feeling is that women like this do not listen to anyone. They feel entitled. They are never wrong. They are always the victim. They are going to do what they want and get what they want whether you agree or not. So, yes, they will make ultimatums like this for other things and will make you pay if you dare to deny them what they "rightfully deserve". Eventually they will totally discard you when they find someone else who can fulfill their needs or realize that you will not bend. It sounds like your ex takes after her mother. Wow