View Single Post
 
Old Jul 11, 2011, 03:43 PM
amandalouise's Avatar
amandalouise amandalouise is offline
Wise Elder
 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacey12345 View Post
Amanda Louise, I'm having trouble responding to the sections separately (the formatting changes and it gets all wacky looking), so I'm going to break your questions up and try to distinguish my responses. Hope it works! Thanks for your time and energy!!

Q: I got distracted and didnt read the whole post so pardon me if I am out of touch with this but I have a question: the person that had an unethical relationship with their client wasnt your therapist so why would another therapist (not your own) having unethical relationships with someone that is not you, question your therapist and whether your own therapist is ethical?

A: Yes, the person who committed these misdeeds and the patient involved are neither my personal T nor myself. In fact, by the timeline specified on the legal documents, I was not his patient during the time when his coworker had the affair and lost his license. I think I started seeing him a few months after that.

Q: In order to write this letter you already have built up a sense of trust with your therapist right and you know your therapist isnt the unethical one right and you know the sexual abuse by that unethical therapist wasnt you.

A: Oh, I don't know that I'm giving this letter to him. I originally posted this in a different thread (things you'd want to tell your T...), and the format I saw there was a letter form, which appealed to me. I didn't write the above letter with the intention to give it to my T, but as a way to share my problem with you lovely PC folks.

Q: Im just not seeing the problem here unless that old thing called transference is kicking in here where you are in your mind making that unethical therapist into being your therapist and in your mind making the victim to that other therapists abuse to be you.

A: I don't believe that my T would ever do anything like that to me, nor can I imagine letting things get to that point in my therapy. He's a little younger than my dad, but he's very fatherly towards me, in manner, in topic, in advice. If it ever became something other than that, I would ... I don't even know. Be shocked. He's talked before about how proud my parents must've been to have me as a daughter, and he's constructed himself to be my advocate and encourager. If anything, this whole transference thing (which I'm really not all that familiar with), would more likely be that I'm seeing him as a father figure. And that dependency makes me uncomfortable.

Q: Also I dont know about where you are but here where we are, when a mental health provider does something like this and loses their credentials the other co workers dont always know why, what happened or anything of the sort.

A: This coworker is my T's best friend. They do a lot of things together, are very close. The practice is very small. There is no way my T doesn't know about the license revoking. I am not sure if he knew about the affair when it was taking place.

Q: therapists have to "renew" their credentials from time to time and its quite normal for a mental health providers credentials to expire and it takes time to go through the renewal process. So using my work places as an example its not unusual for me to know this provider or that one lost their credentials but still be practicing and not know it was because theirs expired and are going through the renewal process or they did something wrong and got sanctioned or must complete a probationary period and requirements before their credentials are reinstated.

A: Again, it's a small private practice. Just a handful of people. And these two are best friends. The other guy, Mr. X, per the settlement, could no longer say that he offered counseling, therapy, etc., so the practice likely had to change how things were written in business materials, cards, memos, etc.

Q: if where your therapist works its the same way, your therapist may not know that mental health provider doesnt have his credentials, or maybe that provider lost their credentials and completed what ever punishment needed completing and now the credentials have been reinstated, and what ever else is involved.

A: Per the settlement, he cannot be licensed again, at least not in my state. He can still provide "counseling" but he cannot call himself a counselor/licensed therapist/etc.

Q: your therapist may not even be legally able to discuss with you what goes on with her co workers. it you were here at the crisis center and this happened here those that work here are unable to discuss what goes on with the personal lives (having sex with their clients is considered that therapists personal life and job not up for discussion with me and my clients) of other treatment providers we work with.

A: This legal part--could he discuss it with me--is something I've thought about. How would this even come up in a conversation? It's not necessarily that I would expect him to tell me this. In fact, no, I don't expect that at all. Particularly since I was in a very vulnerable state when I first starting seeing him and I wasn't very receptive to the idea of therapy in the first place. Plus, I don't know what I would do with that information if he told me.

Your other point though--personal lives and what not--is... difficult for me to digest. Maybe some of the T's in PC can better speak to this than I can, but there is a sanctity to the patient-therapist relationship. It's similar to patient-doctor, student-teacher, etc. Take a look at this link: http://www.medbd.ca.gov/licensee/seven_sins-lust.html

I find this part particularly interesting: "in no instance shall consent of the patient or client be a defense." So even if the patient wants a relationship, is a consenting adult, the very fact that he/she is a patient precludes a romantic, sexual, personal relationship between he/she and the clinician. There are many reasons for this: the power disparity that is inherent to the patient-clinician relationship, the vulnerability of the patient and potential for manipulation...

Ultimately, whether you agree with me or not, I believe that relationships between clients and patients are morally indefensible. Mr. X cannot defend his actions, so regardless of the circumstances or players involved, I feel comfortable with my extreme discomfort with Mr.X's choices and actions. Now I have to figure out how/if that discomfort extends to my own T.

Q: your therapist though will be able to work on your issues as to why what a treatment provider not your own is making you question your treatment providers interaction with you and why it makes you uncomfortable to know a treatment provider that you dont have did this. basically keeping the conversation on you and your issues. not on the unethical therapists issues.

A: I don't know if I will even bring all this up with my T.

Q: if you are asking for opinions about the sound of the letter, grammatical and such what I did read of it is worded ok to me.

A: Aw thanks But the letter is just for you guys, not for my T.

Thank you for your advice!!!! Let me know if what I wrote makes sense and if you have any other questions....[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much for explaining things to me

the part you wrote of Your other point though--personal lives and what not--is... difficult for me to digest. Maybe some of the T's in PC can better speak to this than I can"

I am a therapist and do understand whats in that link thanks.

heres I was trying to get at lets use you and your therapist, me and my therapist, lets make it that we go to the same agency -

you see your therapist at "#1 counseling agency"

I see my therapist at "#1 counseling agency"

my therapist is friends with your therapist.

what goes on in your therapy sessions is personal and private between you and your therapist. it doesnt matter what you and your therapist do behind those closed doors its a therapy session and therapy sessions are covered by confidentiality rules.

you and your therapist can plan a bank heist and if its done in therapy sessions no matter what my therapist cant tell me what is going on in your therapy sessions. you and your therapist can fall in love and have sex in that therapy room and still my therapist cannot tell me about it because what goes on between you and your therapist is private and personal to you and your therapist and is covered by confidentiality laws.

even if you and your therapist meet after hours for your affair together, even though what goes on outside of the therapy sessions is your own personal life and no matter what the therapist does after ours is his personal life, you and he are client and therapist so its covered by confidentiality laws and ethics laws.

even if my therapist and yours are friends what goes on for you and your therapist inside and outside the therapy room is covered by confidentiality laws.

even if your therapist tells my therapist you and he had sex my therapist still cant tell me about it because he is your therapist so confidentiality laws apply to anything and everything including any contact between you and your therapist is covered by confidentiality laws.

my therapist and your therapist possibly being friends doesnt change that. what ever goes on between you and your therapist regardless of if you and he have an abusive situation happen to you caused by your therapist its still covered by confidentiality laws so my therapist cannot tell me anything about what happened between you and your therapist.

Thanks for this!
lacey12345