From: Me
To: Him
Date: July 29, 2011 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: My rebuttal with anger issued at the end
I do not know what made me wake up and read this, but I did and now I can't sleep. I have to respond.
On Jul 29, 2011, at 12:08 AM, ashmore farmer wrote:
It's nice that you can ask your mom about this stuff. Also a little disconcerting that she knows so much about our relationship. And, unfair that I don't have my mom.
To begin, when you had a mom, did you share this sort of information with her? You cannot make comments about it being unfair for me to have a mom and expect me to ignore them. You have a dad, I do not. Do I constantly bring that up with you? I don't believe so. I am deeply saddened that you lost your mom, Gina. Truly I am. But you can't rightly use that against me. You may not intent it to sound negative however I do read it that way. That may be me, if so it is my mistake. I will add this though: I do think it is a topic you need to focus your counseling on.
I did not intend it to sound negative. I am not using anything against you. My feelings of unfairness regarding my mom are one of the ways in which I grieve. I was just sharing a part of my grief with you. I do not mean "unfair" as in you shouldn't have a mom, or I wish I had a mom and you didn't, or anything like that. I just mean it's not fair that she died so young and when I still needed her. No, it is true, I didn't always feel comfortable talking with her about my relationship but we did have deep, meaningful talks about other things and I miss that terribly. Please don't be offended by a part of my grief.
I wouldn't call them failed counseling sessions. I think we just needed to keep working and going and working on stuff at home too. Counseling can take a long, long time to work.
I know you think you're the one who has made all the sacrifices and I'm sure that puts some pressure on our relationship. But, I've made sacrifices too. I doubt you notice them.
There is no we in counseling; it is you. You need to address your issues. I have been rather accepting of issues sans a few minor. The counseling is something you need; I was only doing it to support you and help build a better relationship. All the issues seem to focus on you yet you sit in the office and listen with minimal input. What sacrifices have you made for me? Not for anyone else, not for Oliver or your sister or your mom but for me? I have not noticed them unless you count not sleeping with others as one. If that is a sacrifice then our relationship is certainly troubled beyond any point I thought. It is true that you supported me when I was having difficulty paying my share but I have since paid that back. I could have turned all that down but I didn't; I stayed with you. I see that as me making a sacrifice more than you making one. I sacrificed job security and jobs to stay with you. You are correct; I have not noticed sacrifices you made for me with the exception of a few minor ones. Although even they were not for me entirely in my opinion. Prove to me otherwise. Tell me what Allen sacrifices you have made that constitute you making that claim and I will consider them.
I suspected this is how you felt. One sacrifice I have made for you is staying with you when you went to Korea, and again when you went to Alaska. I have given a portion of my parental decision-making rights to you. I have worked and worked and worked to get myself to be able to accept your traveling. Giving up on things I want to do because you can't afford them. Accepting you working on weekends because it was the only work you could get. Maybe I'm not the only one who's unappreciative?
We talked about this. I still think this sounds like she thinks I want to get married right away.
I doubt that is the case. I am under the impression that she wants me to marry more than she thinks you want to get married. My mom has hinted for years about me settling down and getting married. However, she claims to understand why I have no interest in doing that.
I don't know that I 100% agree that it's really confusing for Oliver. He doesn't really know anything else. There has been some confusion with our names (why does he call you Allen but me Mom? Are you his dad? If not, who is?) but none of it really seems to cause him much distress. He feels loved and that's what's important.
I agree, him feeling loved is most important. I also believe that later on in life-if you replace me with another father figure-Oliver could develop some issues that are difficult for him to dissect on his own. His mom meets these guys who are not his dad and she doesn't talk to his real dad but she lets these strangers step in as father figures. The guy will not have a foundation for a father at all. It seems like it could get confusing after some time. It may not though, my Nana has been married many times and my mom seems certain about who her dad was. My aunt is a different story though; she was a party animal most of her teen and young adult life. She blames a lot of issues on not having a father figure. Therapy at work! I say.
This is true. There is a way to get you legal rights. It means Andrew has to voluntarily relinquish his rights and no more child support from him. I think we could do it without getting married but I'm not sure. Anyway, this is off the table unless and until we get back together. Even then, I will have to give it some very serious consideration.
I do not see getting legal rights to Oliver. I wrote that in a letter. I will never-in my opinion-be accepted as his legal or real father/dad. All I want is for him to have a figure in his life that he can rely on even if we are not together. He has been disowned by one man; I don't want him to feel disowned by another.
It would be a possibility to make you legal father if our relationship works out and we know we'll always be together and that's what you want. Just know it's not a "never", if you want it, it can still happen. If it doesn't work out, I will do everything in my power to ensure that he doesn't feel it's his fault in any way, or feel abandoned.
Yep - in the top two of my issues with our relationship. Something I plan to spend a lot of time thinking about in the next couple months.
You should consider this one seriously. I do not want more kids. Could that change over time, certainly? But, at this moment and as far as I can see I do not want another kid. If it is in the top two issues for you then we may need to call it quits here. It is a topic or issue I am strong about. Marriage, living in places I dislike, putting up with your emotional fragility are all things I can work with but a child is not. I just do not want one, maybe adoption at some point but that too is down the road.
I know that you do not want another kid. That is something I need to think about very seriously. Can I be happy with just Oliver forever? That's all I meant. I understand your position on the topic.
I find this part very troublesome. The part about you fearing losing Oliver more than me. I'm sure you know that it's wrong to stay together for the children's sake, and I'm sure you've considered what will happen to your relationship with him if our relationship ends. But the thought that you might still be in this just for Oliver and not for me is painful to me.
Now a day, I love Oliver more. I loved both of you equally and I felt a little more complete with both of you in my life. However, now-after what you did- I do love Oliver more. I do fear that you'll cut off all my ties with Oliver if we stay apart, that is out of concern for Oliver (read above the section on Oliver and fathers/dads).
I do not know what I'll do considering your ties with Oliver if we stay apart. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
What does she mean, "What her family is like"? Can I separate myself from what? What have you told her about my family? I think this part is the part that is bothering me the most...
She means the lack of communication you and your dad have. The closed feelings that exists in your family. She only knows this from what I say, I admit. I tell her you guys never talked, or rarely talked, that you don't share feelings with one another. I tell her how your sister seems rude and snobbish to me. I tell her how I rarely hear "thank you" from you guys and how I feel you both-you and your sister- seem to expect things to be done for you without consideration. I tell her how I perceive your family. Yes, it may be biased but very little has shown me different. We concluded that it is rooted in upbringing. I was raised to respect others, be grateful, and always be considerate of others. My brother, not so much, so it is upbringing. My mom was in a career change most of his formative years and he just developed a dependence on her, Donnie, his grandmother. I rather Oliver be raised how I was and appreciate what others do; I told my mom that I got the feeling you and your sister-through your mom or your dad- were never taught to be thankful and appreciative of what others do for you. Can you change your ways? Can you separate yourself from the way they-your family-clam things up? Let's begin with your sister and her moving; it is obvious that you did not want it but you said very little about it. I was raised to discuss this type of thing. "Hey, I really could use you now. Could you please put off moving a few months? I have no one and I really need the comfort and support of my best friend...who is also my sister." You are not begging her to stay, you are simply telling her that you are in need of help and it hurts that she wants to leave when she is needed most.
My sister and I are grateful most of the time. I admit I didn't always show enough appreciation to you, but it wasn't out of malice or disrespect, it was out of forgetfulness. You don't hear my conversations with my family most of the time so you don't really know what they are like. I told my sister I did not want her to move, I told her I really needed her, multiple times. Just because you didn't hear it doesn't mean I didn't do it.
I'm pretty sure that's not why I did it. I don't remember everything that was going through my mind, but I'm pretty positive I never thought I would end up in a relationship with that guy and he would move in with me and help me out.
You do have insecurity issues that have plagued you for years. You have mentioned that to me. Did you please that guy in the hopes of developing a long lasting relationship? I doubt it. You did it because you are insecure and you fill your emptiness with being a one-night stand. It's tragic, Gina. But it is something you either accept or you change. I do not believe having a kid changes someone in that respect, particularly when the kid was had in just such a situation. I didn't know what was going through your mind but I do know now, from what you told me and (mishearing it I am sure) I am even more hurt. Unless I misheard this (something you say I do often to be honest) you said the thought of me did go through your mind when you started. So you knew that was going through your mind, Gina. My theory as to why you did it: You like one-night stands; you like feeling loved even when it is obviously lust and not love. You get confused about the two. You want out of our relationship more than you admit or you are aware of.
I am going to lay out in the sun, now.
If you have anything comforting to tell me please do. As of late though, you use words like "blameless" and "I need counseling". I say to you, my dear, that you are taking this issue too far in terms of us. You need to continue considering if you want me in your life instead of laying blame on me for sucking someone off. If I am to blame for that then I want out of this relationship right now. Never, I mean never, justify blowing someone else because of me. I have to go, I furious once again.
I think about our relationship every day and whether or not it's salvageable. Basically every moment of every day, you are going through my mind and I am weighing the pro's and con's. You and your mom both said that cheating is a result of underlying problems in a relationship. I see this now, and I believe it. You asked for an explanation, some reasoning other than being drunk that I did it. I've been delving deeper and deeper really trying to fish this out ever since. I would never, ever, ever blame you for what I did, and I do not. It was 100% my fault. However, our relationship did have underlying issues before that happened. When I said you are not blameless, I meant regarding those other issues. I truly hope you understand that, although I made a huge huge huge mistake, and I accept full responsibility for that and want to do what I can to fix it, I am not the only culprit in our relationship issues. They were there before I did that, and unless we work very very hard to fix them, this will never work.
I do believe you have emotional issues that you need to work through. Maybe not through counseling, maybe through writing or self-help books, but they do need to be addressed. I believe they existed long before we met. I say this because I truly care about you and want you to be happy. If you are unable to admit you have issues at this point, our relationship will not work.
I am sorely hurt by this email. I do not know why all the anger is coming out of you now; perhaps the true pain of what I did is really beginning to hit you, maybe it's something I said last night, maybe it was something in this email that offended you. When I was there in Alaska, you gave me the impression you would try to forgive me. That we had a chance. You were nice to me, downright loving, and I don't just mean the sex. I'm so confused about what has changed since I got back to Colorado. Was it a facade for the benefit of me or others? Did the full pain of my actions not hit you until after I left? Is it easier to be angry at me when we're not face-to-face?
I am trying, Allen, trying so hard to do what is right in this situation, by you, by myself, and by Oliver. I'm trying to remain calm and think things through rationally. I know you are hurt and mad, I expect and understand that. I am trying to take your anger as a part of the consequences of my actions. But I don't know how much more of the type of communication you've presented in this email I can take. I truly want our relationship to work, but I can't handle much more sorrow. I'm sorry I hurt you. Truly, truly sorry. Please, please, please stop trying to hurt me.
I have an appointment with Carl Monday morning.
I love you.
Good night.
Gina
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