"if you are going to be critical of what I say you accurately state it"

Right back at you. I was not suggesting people were weak and undisciplined at all.

To help us out, can you point to where you feel that there were "gratuitous potshots" at the West? That is what you said. And I was responding to that particular, very specific, take away. I did not say that you said the entire discussion was gratuitouis, I make it a point to be very specific on message boards exactly for this reason -- I don't like how generalzing often leads to being personally attacked.

If anything, my post came from the exact opposite place -- one of the gifts of depression is empathy for the depressed -- that was sort of my point in the first place.

I can find something to relate to in all types of depression, from the mild to the severe, from people who suffered horrible abuse to people where they can't pinpoint any particular cause.

I was actually going to write that but it was slow going on my iPad and I was going to be late for work.

Buddhism has helped me more than meds is just my personal experience, and it only applies to me RIGHT NOW. I really cannot fathom how you can extrapoloate that out to me suggesting others are weak and undisciplined. If that's even where you got it, I'm so confused.

I've tried a lot of different stuff for my messed up brain (depression doesn't even cover everything that is wrong with it), nothing has quote, unquote worked. I may try meds again, I might end up being instituationalized or getting electroshock therapy before this whole thing is over, who knows. Maybe I will end up committing suicide, I don't have a crystal ball.

I'm not saying Buddhism is the answer, it's almost funny how much of an oxymoron that would be. I'm just saying it is helping me, and it might help others on this board, and support is supposed to be the point of this board.

I am extraordinarily undisciplined, it's a deeply personal battle, I would never accuse others of that.

I think, emphasis on *think*, Venus and I made you feel defensive with our anti-U.S. stance. That's understandable. By the way, I grew up military, my father enlisted so he wouldn't be drafted into the Vietnam War. But if we did, I'm not going to apologize for it.

I WAS VERY CAREFUL TO SAY, that I am fully aware that I am from and live in a really weird place and it informs my world view. I don't begrudge others theirs.

To accuse others of being weak and undisciplined is to attack their character. To accuse me of attacking the character of people is extremely inflammatory and hurtful, all the more because you have no evidence, you are using the cop-out of "suggestion."