Quote:
Originally Posted by Perna
I take manipulation to mean deliberately mis- or under-informing another to get a result positive for one's self in an interaction between myself and another. Manipulation is a misdirection of another.
I might be able to get more cookies if I don't tell my brother that mother made them today 
Telling a story but deliberately leaving out key details so someone will likely think X about us or another instead of Y (i.e., deliberately talking about what the other person did wrong and not mentioning our own actions or talking about our feelings of hurt but not our actions in retaliation so people give us attention where they might not if they had a more complete picture, and knowing that is so).
Running home and telling mother, "Bobby called me a stupidhead!" but not that we first pushed Bobby down and then called him a "crybaby" is trying to manipulate an adult to side with us and get Bobby in trouble with a stronger-than-I-am adult. |
Is it wrong of me to not see anything wrong with that?
Seriously, though. I'm presenting an argument. To indicate anything that would undermine my argument would be counter-productive to self-preservation (usually). Plus... I'm in no way refusing Bobby his right to provide a counterargument, nor am I necessarily lying. Now, if I claimed Bobby was a stupid head who was slandering me by saying I pushed him down the stairs, which I didn't... I would be lying, and that would be wrong. Or if I threatened Bobby into silence, that would also be wrong and probably illegal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankster
I think a lot of times, manipulation is in the eye of the beholder. Two people can do or say the exact same things, and only one will be considered manipulative. Like the old jokes about a man being a leader, and a woman doing the same thing is a b i t c h. So MTG may be targeted where Dr Muffin gets a hug button for the same comment. But having been accused of it myself, I would say it comes primarily from not taking responsibility for one's feelings, so you (i) try to manipulate someone else into carrying some of the load in some way.
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I can see that, especially when one considers different cultures. And it's a problem I've been having a lot lately. Another blogger (I forget who) mentioned that once he was labelled as a psychopath (manipulative), everything he did suddenly became manipulation in the eyes of everyone else. So it makes it harder for me to determine if it's their fear of the label or if I'm actually doing something of which I'm not fully aware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie_J
I think everyone is manipulative to a certain extent, never more so than in the way we present ourselves to others in order to garner their support/empathy/advocacy. Manipulation is not by definition harmful as such. Babies manipulate their parents from birth.
In addition, I've always considered myself fairly easy to manipulate, and even when I notice it, I usually won't mind it (whatever it is) unless:
a) It's something that's hurtful to me.
b) It's something that's hurtful to others.
c) It's being done by someone who has no respect, i.e. they're attempting to elicit an action, behaviour or response from me that they aren't capable of themselves.
The instances above are when it becomes abuse rather than socially acceptable human behaviour.
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I agree that manipulation isn't harmful by definition, and I like your distinctions between socially acceptable and harmful manipulation. Is there any type of manipulation where, even if neither party gets harmed, it's still wrong? "Lying" for the greater good sort of thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynn P.
I don't think you're manipulative here and can't say if you are IRL. Regarding here, I think there's a few who judge you by your label which isn't fair. If they did this with another diagnosis, it wouldn't be tolerated. Some naturally assume a psychopath must be manipulative all the time. They forget there may be some who are trying to live a decent life. I think there's a general prejudice - they hear the label psychopath and the person branded bad all around. The same thing happens with some other labels because they've been branded as generally bad people in society. I won't add what's good manipulation VS bad, because some posts already covered this well. I agree we all have the ability to be manipulative to some extent.
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This bold part is what incited all of this... I was on a website a few days ago. They had a term for everything I said. Word salad. Pity ploy. Emotional blackmail. Misdirection. Playing the victim. So on and so forth... One even accused me of using other accounts to pretend to be emotionally tormented by the things I said in order to upset the rest of them. I have no idea what they were talking about, and they refused to tell me. Ironically, they agreed with a lot of what I said before I told them my diagnosis.
Still... It's hard for me to believe that a simple word can have such an impact on people... If I actually wanted to wreak havoc, all I'd have to do is say, "Hi, I'm Michael, and I'm a psychopath," and whole communities are left in ruin. It's happened a few times before... I don't intend to do this. But is it still manipulation because I know it's likely to happen and it does hurt people? Would it be more or less wrong of me to hide my personality? Faking emotion and that... Isn't that basically manipulation because I'm making people believe I'm someone that I'm not?