Maybe we just haven't discovered the science behind it yet. Do you have to actually visit the New World in 1492 to believe the world is not flat? that is probably not the most reasonable or historically accurate argument, but I think you get my meaning? You use leeches for medical care until something better comes along - they DID help with high blood pressure!

Maybe science is not the answer when it comes to human psyche. Maybe less science and more simplicity would do better job. Not saying we all should live in woods, but maybe stopping to consider what are we doing this for and if this is how we want our life to be.

Icarus project in one of the publications raised a question about how impact health is measured in missed days of work... but what if the person never wanted to do that job in first place?

Science, even social science uses reductionism and simplifies things. But can our psyches really be put into a formula?

I'd like to add another concept: we all have a pleasure-seeking, goal-oriented system and a separate pain-avoidance system in the brain. They need to have a balance in order for us to function at our best. In my subjective experience, medications seem to reduce activity in the pain-avoidance parts of the brain - with all kinds of unwanted side effects. They often do little, if anything, to trigger activity in the pleasure-seeking, goal oriented system in my case and, I suspect, in many other people's experience as well. The problem for me is that this positive system keeps shutting down under stress. Why? Because I have chronic, subconscious negative expectations which cause me to simply not signal it to turn on under certain stressful conditions!


This is interesting.... but yeah, I tend to believe it is partly "in your head".

Many people tend to view it as offensive when told they don't have coping skills... but thse can be taught. And sometimes when we find ourselves in new situation... we don't know how to react.

If you were dropped in a foreign country without a map, knowing the language, or knowing where you are.... you would probably first try to analyze the situation. Try to figure out where you are and what are the habits of people. Maybe you would try to find some tourguide. You would try to learn few usefull phrases..... and this is simmilar to finding ourselves in situation we weren't prepared for. Freaking out is natural... maybe some are better equipped to orient themselves quickly, but most people can do it.


Is this a purely biological problem unaffected by my own thinking, like diabetes? I really don't think so!!! A biological tendency for depressive states is being triggered by negative habits of thought - this is very clear to me now. In my personal experience (and everyone is different), medications are nowhere near a substitute for reframing my thinking and expectations.

Power of thought is very strong and should not be underestimated. I think it is criminal to tell people they cannot control their thoughts and cannot help themselves.




Vibe... word on what you said. I don't have problem with people who chose to take meds... but many take them for wrong reason, believing the whole chemical imbalance theory. Many take them with faith that taking few pills will solve most of the problems. Yes, they may make you feel better and your life livable, but we don't really know why. If it works for you and is worth the risks.... than go ahead. But that should be a personal informed choice.

By talking about medical model.... it misses the point. And I am tired of well intending friends recommending me good srhinks and good drugs as if that would solve my situation. Stigma? Yes, there are people among the normals who think depression is nothing. But then there are some who believe one needs to take drugs... otherwise I am walking on an a-bomb.... hard to explain them it is not just lack of serotonin for me.

I have both depression and diabetes (<--the correct spelling) and I think a lot of people who tell me how to manage them know very little about either one.


Thanks for correcting my spelling, it greatly contributes to the debate.

I am not telling you how to manage it. I am just sharing my point of view. Spreading the medical model hurts me and hurts many people.

I agree, we haven't even begun to understand the complexities involved. But the brain isn't "just another organ." We know essentially nothing about the brain, compared with the rest of the body. Medicine involving the brain isn't "like" anything else. Thought, memory, processing--we're only beginning to glimpse what's involved.


So I rather not mess with it. You wouldn't let a guy who know little about computers and would speak of "well, there is a theory that deleting this program may get rid of the problem, but it works only for 60% of users" to repair yours, would you?