Desirae and Fuzzy, you know, this being human stuff is hard work. One of the things i've learned is we can't treat anybody else any differenly than we treat ourselves. If we manipulate others, we manipulate ourselves, everything is a revelation on inner workings..... until we take judgement off it, we'll never be able to look at it. So, in my book self forgiveness (coupled with committment to knock it off, watever it is....) is key. If we can't forgive ourselves, we don't even know what forgiveness is. Once we wrench ourseves out of negative self patterns, the rest is much easier to even contemplate let alone pull off. Especially dealing with betrayal and boundaries and trust. I'm amazed by how fluid it can become once you get started. And if you have good support and friends to practice with. The process gets greased. But, I must admit, it's NEVER easy. Just easier. And processes more quikly. And feels good to do. The first time someone suggested I forgive myself for choosing this troublesome existance, I was stunned by the concept. Oh, all the while before I had spent my forgiveness chits on forgiving my father for being a sadistic, mysogynist, pedophile and my mother for being oblivious to me because she was already in way over her head. Forgive my self???? Manomanoman, that was the real booger. But, after 25 years of practicing, I feel it to be the keystone on our path to healing.