Kimmyd, and others,

Any talk of AA /12step is inherently talk of religious/cult mindcontrol.

I would strongly suggest that anyone not wanting to experience the rapidly effective cult brainwashing of the 12step religion stay well away from AA and all it's clones. Agnostics, Humanists, Free Thinkers, Atheists, and others are strongly advised not to subject themselves to such a doctrinaire group which has no respect for your beliefs and will do it's best to break them and you down so that you can be open to conversion to the bait and switch 12step religion.

~Down