I've found people don't want to understand it. Mostly people don't want to understand anything they don't, well, understand. It's the old 'don't confuse 'em with facts, their minds are made up' thing ~quote Spider

Well, this is true about all people, very few people have open minds. You have to do your best to find people who do have open minds, yes i know it isn't easy, but they ARE out there. But if you cant find them you have to be EXTRA kind to YOURSELF and remember not to allow that to keep you from trying to understand it yourself. Because often what happens is that when we cannot get others to understand our suffering, we may give up helping ourselves.

Now, tell me what it is you do to 'be good to yourself'. So far I've only found 2 things. Getting away from what terrorizes me and this forum.:<)

Well, I am lost with this PTSD and I have to forgive myself for that.
When I get angry and my temper flairs, I have to forgive myself for that.
When I don't keep my house clean and I am definitely behind and don't even have the energy or desire or I get overwhelmed so easily because I am so behind on my house, I have to forgive and be kind to myself for that.
I come here and spend a lot of time sometimes instead of doing other things, I have to forgive and be kind to myself for that.
I make sure that I get therapy and it means spending money on me that is hard to come up with, I have to be kind to myself when I feel guilty about that.
If I have a really bad day and experience flashbacks that tire me out and I need to lie down, I allow myself to do that even though something else may not get done.
I get impatient with myself sometimes and I have to forgive myself for that.
It took me a long time to post my own problems here at PC and when I do I feel uncomfortable about that as I am so programed NOT to do that, I have to tell myself it is ok to say I am hurting here.
I may get triggered in a thread and make a mistake, I have to not be hard on myself for that and try to learn from it.
If I don't know the answer I have to not get angry with myself and remind myself that I will eventually LEARN the answer.

Being kind to myself is reminding myself to do my best to KEEP AN OPEN MIND, even when I am hurt and angry.

Spider you can add to the list here, give yourself permission to do things for yourself.
Give yourself permission to always have an open mind as much as you can. PTSD can be very punishing, but no matter what you see that you feel you may have done wrong? Just remember you are only human and if you see something that is progress because then you can learn from it.



I ran into the same denial attitude when I tried to approach other family, friends about alcoholism in my husband and son. Open Eyes, IIRC, you have a recovering alcoholic husband..did you run into this too? ~quote Spider

Yes, I ran into people who didn't see how much it hurt me and his parents didn't see it or understand how it affected me either. I did get him to go to AA which did help him a lot, however people around me didn't see how THAT BECAME HIS PRIORITY and I WAS ALWAYS VERY ALONE WHILE HE TOOK CARE OF "HIS" RECOVERY. And, what many didn't realize is how imature he was in many ways. People do not see it all. People only see what THEY WANT TO SEE.

Another is trying to convince people that domestic violence is REAL! And often they are people deeply involved in it, but the denial is stronger.
A lot of this is that often people that are related to this abuser have grown up with this kind of behavior and it doesn't truely register with them as abuse. Alcoholics can also have a very likable side to them, some even have a soulful side to them as well.

Although, I've sent LOTS of info to my kids, and it just pisses them off more. ~quote Spider

The reason your children do not show any interest is because IT IS ALL ABOUT YOU.
Children will reject that because IT DOESN'T ADDRESS "THEIR" ANGER AND HURT.

I know this is confusing Spider, it confuses YOU now. What you don't see, what I had trouble seeing too, is that while I was struggling with my husband's issues that gave me issues my daughter was hurt. She isn't seeing MY ISSUES, she is seeing HER issues.

For example, last Friday my daughter stood in front of me and said, "I have been emotionally abused" to me. I had to stop myself from defending myself because I know that I continued to give her a lot, a lot more than any of her friends had. I had to remember that even though she had more than I ever had, and a good mom who really loved her? The truth was, SHE DID STRUGGLE because of the disfunction and the fact that I DID HAVE A LOT OF ILLNESSES TOO.

The one thing I have learned from coming to PC and not just focusing on MY issues but also, actually mostly reaching out to others, is I learned a lot from the teens.
Many of them get very lost and confused when parents get overwhelmed with their relationship problems, especially if there is issues with alcholism. Remember, EVERYONE is affected by that, not just the wife of the alcholic. But they are also affect by divorce or even psychological issues their parents may have. I have talked and comforted a few of them in private. They DO struggle and are often even AFRAID to SAY THEY ARE STRUGGLING . Many times they are silent victims that no one hears.

When my daughter stood there and said what she said, I was hurt. But I knew she needed to express HER PAIN. I talked to her again and told her that I do NOT want to be one of those mothers that is NOT willing to see HER PAIN and accept whatever I may have contributed to that.

If I had just handed her something about PTSD for her to read, that would CLOSE the door to us REPAIRING. Because SHE REALLY NEEDS HER FEELINGS VALIDATED TOO.
We could write the whole collection of Encyclopedia Britanica on PTSD but our children will not ever open it UNTIL THEY ARE ALLOWED TO GET HEARD ABOUT THEIR HURT TOO.

I have always wanted to be a good parent to my daughter, and considering what I had to face when I was parenting her I know I did the best I could. But I faced things that really challenged and troubled me and I tried to keep as much of my pain and fears from her as I could, but that didn't help her understand my moods. I definity could not hide all my moods, especially with all the anethesia and health issues effecting me.

If I do not listen to HER PAIN, then I will be teaching her that HER feelings are NOT important which teaches her to accept abuse. That is NOT how I raised her, I raised her to know that all I wanted from her was for her to be HAPPY. But, unfortunately, I could not always show her HAPPY in MYSELF because I was just struggling with too many challenges that were upsetting and made me feel unsafe a lot and I did almost die too. Even then I still kept her horse going, but it did effect my mood because I WAS DRAINED AND TIRED A LOT.

Spider, I know you are hurting and suffering from PTSD and you certainly have had more than your share of challenges. And your kids can probably see that too, BUT IT ALSO AFFECTED THEM and the ONLY WAY they will even be remotely open to YOUR PTSD AND PERSONAL STRUGGLE is IF YOU SEE THEIRS TOO.

If you think about the fact that you were ONLY 24 when you were exposed to a major trama AND YOU WERE DYING AND YOUR MOTHER RESPONDED TO THAT WITH,
"HOW DARE YOU DO THIS TO ME". Do you remember that?

Your mother was genuinely TRAMATIZED in way I COULD NEVER IMAGINE and that CHANGED HER AS A HUMAN BEING. And she could write volumes about that and the one thing that will always stand out in your mind is when you were dieing and she said, "HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO "ME" ".

You have to remember APATHY and TRAMA in the PTSD. The APATHY and ANGER IS VERY REAL. You talk about how no one could understand how she didn't move from that home where such a horrible thing happened right in front of her. SHE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ANY MORE, SHE WAS CONSUMED WITH APATHY AND ANGER. At that point she didn't even CARE ABOUT HERSELF ENOUGH TO REMOVER HERSELF FROM THAT ENVIORNMENT.

Spider, I can understand where you are in many ways. You have had a LOT OF TRAMA IN YOUR LIFE.
And you did do your best to deal with so much. And I am sure that you really were hurt and that you are really struggling with PTSD. And as your new friend and supporter, I do hear your pain. And I tried very hard to give you the picture the way I am seeing it from what you have shared with me thus far. And at the same time, I have my own picture that I am struggling to see too. So in that, I know it isn't easy.

I feel very alone myself with this disorder that NO ONE GETS. I don't have friends around me right now because quite frankly, NO FRIEND IS GOING TO UNDERSTAND THIS, UNLESS THEY HAVE EXPERIENCED IT THEMSELVES. And I am in a mess too myself still with the damage and debt and crappy neighbors and lawyer who didnt do his job last year and this lawsuit hanging on and on. I am VERY TIRED alot. And sometimes I sit here and the phone rings with people making inquiries about my little business and I JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE TALKING TO THEM. And when I really think about it, I DON'T GET A DAY OFF AND MY LAST VACATION WAS 32 YEARS AGO AND THAT WAS MY HONEYMOON. Ugh, grrr, Sigh.....

I am doing it one day at a time and I don't always do that great. And it can get lonely for me too.

I am sorry about your children Spider, but I am sure they have THEIR PAIN TOO, AS well as APATHY. And I am sure you worked real hard at surviving and there are things they don't see or understand. Yes, right now they only see HOW THINGS EFFECTED THEM. And if you think about it, when it comes to your mother, SHE DIDN'T SEE YOUR PAIN EITHER.

When I come right down to it, the only way other people are open to seeing OUR PAIN, is if they can show THEIR PAIN TOO.

You are definitely on a journey and so am I and we have had some really painful things happen to us.
But right now, it is time to work on healing, and ofcourse keeping and open mind.

(((Hugs to you Spider)))
Open Eyes