(((Spider)))),

I am not babying you, I am validating you because you DO NEED THAT. Who else does that for you? No one right? I know what that feels like.

Ok, from what you are discribing here you have been told by their actions and disrespect that THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE. And YOU CANNOT MAKE THEM CHANGE. So what you have to do is stop offering yourself up as a punching bag.
It sounds like you are TRYING to reach out and be a part of them BUT THEY ONLY HAND YOU DISRESPECT.

No I have not heard THEIR SIDE in this so I cannot give you TOTAL INSIGHT. But I definitely can SEE YOU ARE TRYING TO REACH OUT.

I did write you a long post somewhere else, and I don't think you have read it, I think it was in Isolating.

What I think is going on is that they are somehow punishing you from THEIR PAIN somewhere. Now, this doesn't always come out even. I know this because I have been addressing this myself. I struggled A LOT and ALMOST DIED MYSELF and yet I did still keep up with MY DAUGHTER'S IMPORTANT WORLD. And even though I have NOT BEEN TREATED FAIRLY, I got strong enough to HEAR MY DAUGHTER TALK ABOUT "HER" PAIN. Now, I could have stood my ground and INVALIDATED HER, but I DIDN'T because even though I DID REALLY STRUGGLE MYSELF, in her way, SO DID SHE.

Spider, one of the biggest problems with many human beings is the INABILITY TO SEE OUTSIDE THEIR "OWN" PAIN. Now, when I read your discription of YOUR LIFE, wow, you sure had a LOT to deal with. But where were your children in all of this? And this is what I had to WILL MYSELF TO SEE AS WELL. Now I am sure you tried to do whatever you could TO JUST SURVIVE and BOY WERE YOU CHALLENGED "EVERY STEP OF THE WAY". And when I really think about how "I" struggled and what my daughter says about her feelings, if I put myself in "her" shoes, I am sure there WERE TIMES WHEN SHE DID FEEL ALONE and I WAS WAY TO CHALLENGED TO STOP AND SEE HER PAIN SOMETIMES MYSELF. I know I was tired alot, and moody because I HAD A LOT ON MY PLATE. The truth was as she was THERE TOO, I failed at making sure she FELT SAFE SOMEHOW. But IT WAS NOT MY FAULT AND I DAM WELL KNOW I TRIED but I NEVER GOT TO SEE IT ALL FROM "HER" EYES.

YES, I KNOW ALL ABOUT THE LABEL "CRAZY" and BELIEVE ME I EARNED EVERY LETTER OF THAT WORD AND THEN SOME, but SHE DOESN'T TRUELY SEE THAT, SHE ONLY SEES "HER" PAIN. Wow is that hard to digest.

Well, I am not going to rewrite my other post here. And I am not going to invalidate you because BELIEVE ME, I HAVE FOUGHT SOME HARD BATTLES MYSELF. No I somehow don't get credit for that LIKE I SHOULD. And that is because OTHER PEOPLE DON'T ALWAYS SEE THAT BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET PAST THEIR OWN PAIN. If you look on page 3 in isolating I replied to your questions Spider. I tried to do my best to address you, remember, I am trying to do my best from what I see.

It doesn't seem fair I KNOW, ME TOO. But that is the way it is.

Sannah actually pointed me in the right direction when I was struggling and you can read that thread called Sannah in the abuse forum. I was really struggling one day and got the answer that was ALWAYS THE ANSWER FROM MY DAD. And Sannah said, OTHER PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO SEE IT UNLESS "THEY" GET THERAPY TOO.

It got me to thinking, and SHE IS RIGHT.

Open Eyes