>> so you think it is okay for extremist groups to post stuff on how all the modern evils are because of the jews or the blacks or the muslims or the christians or whatever?

>Yes. I don't have to agree with what they say, but they have the right to say it.

I agree that they have the right to say what they want in the privacy of their own homes... I guess... I'm just trying to say that I don't think freedom of speech is an absolute right that takes priority over all other considerations. Let me try and think of some examples where you might be willing to agree that other considerations can over-ride a persons right to freedom of speech.

- Lets say a school teacher wanted to teach his students that the current evils in the world were due to blacks / jews etc. Do you think he should be allowed to spout hate speech in the classroom?
- Lets say someone stands in a building and yells 'Oh my god the building has been bombed!'. When they know full well it hasn't. Do you think they should be allowed to do that?
- Lets suppose that someone tries to recruit people to bomb a building or something... Or tries to persuade people that god wants them to become a terrorist bomber or something like that. Do you think they should be allowed to do that?

>... perspective isn't easily changed, especially if it's colored by tragic experiences and violence.

Yes. And if it is fostered by hate speech.

> Some people don't know how to be rational.

Well... Apparantly people are born with an innate understanding of modus ponens (and logical forms in general). But it is true that critical thinking and critical reasoning and rational discourse is a skill that improves with formal instruction / practice. They are starting to try and teach these things in philosophy for children programs. If you want to have an authentic democracy then you need people who are critical thinkers...

> What you call rational may be irrational to someone else.

There are objective standards of rationality.

> And yes, it does give them power. Because they will find others who share their views, and you won't know about it, because they've learned to hide it. Necessity is the mother of invention, as they say. They will build their popularity underground, and when no one is ready, they will surface, more powerful than anyone imagined.

In order for them to have power they need to persuade other people around to their cause...

> Most people don't see the racist supremecist groups, even though they're not so underground. But it's because people dismiss them and ignore them that they gain power. They find the young people who are still easily molded. They find the adults who have been victimized by a person or persons of a particular race. Those people may not have formed racist views yet, but the racists show them one point of view, show how this race has done this, and this, and this, and in the mind of the person whose opinion hasn't yet formed, this might make sense. When something makes sense, we don't always consider other points of view. Once we find something that makes sense, we don't always keep searching and exploring.

So you think that if we listened to them more their power wouldn't be so great? I'm not so sure about that...

> I don't know if you're American, but in the USA, free speech means you can say something that offends me greatly. I don't have to agree with it, I don't have to think you're right. Your opinion doesn't harm anyone. Your actions can. So, you can hate, and say you hate, as long as you don't commit actions because of your hate.

Ah. But there are limits on where and how you can express your hate aren't there?

> They are victimless crimes that never should have resulted in punishment. They should not be crimes.

Yeah. Sometimes the law and morality diverge...

> Exactly. And the same is true of hate. Having the fantasy/hate, and sharing it with others (even with the intent of finding others or inspiring others to feel the same way), is your right. Acting it out, on the other hand, is not. We don't want thought police.

So it is okay for teachers to share their hate with their students then?