aww hugs to all you ladies i feel like crapola this morning, stuck at work, want to be in bed.

passion, i don't think you're asking too much at all! you want all those things, and you're getting clearer on stating what you want, i think that's a good start.

communicating with men like this type of man is really difficult. and yea, they shut right down when you get what they see as overly emotional. and they get mad when you tell them they're unemotional and unromantic because they feel accused of something. so you have to tiptoe around and not put them on the defensive.

it's weird cuz they're the emotionless ones, but they're not really, they just act cold and hold it all in. they just don't show the love that we would like to have shown.

if you've already tried counselors and everything i don't know what else you are supposed to do.

if you want this to work with him, you might try the conversation that will get him to open up. Like if you say, do you love me? and he says yes. can you tell him that makes you so happy (if it does?), then tell him to tell you the top 5 things he loves about you, say please play along i need to hear some good things right now. then if he answers, you hug him thank him tell him that was romantic and sweet (or whatever.). my idea is that you start small with retraining him to open up, and give him big praises for opening up and being romantic, without straightforwardly saying that's what you're doing. might feel more natural to him that way, he doesn't sound like he responds well to the therapy setting.

i think it's worth trying some more, cuz i think you need to know you tried Everything before leaving a marriage. i'm at a similar place with the bf... i'm really wavering trying to figure out what i want - or moreso maybe can he change and become the man i want.... this stuff is hard!