What I say can be argued about forever, if this does not sit right with anyone then there can always be arguments against it because it is hard to prove. Sorry for my poor language skills in my explanations, I hope it is still legible.
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Originally Posted by Maven
While I do agree with you to a point, Denotsed, I disagree also. Experiences are a mix of chosen and unchosen things that happen to you, because of you or around you. People can share the same experience and react completely different.
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People react completely differently to new experiences because they have different past experiences! For these 'chosen' experiences you speak of, why are they chosen? Based on past experience.
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Originally Posted by Maven
You talk about if a dog bites you when you're young, then you'll fear dogs, unless you have positive experiences to override that programming. Not necessarily; some people do get harmed by animals or people but don't develop a phobia.
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They may not have a phobia but you think they're going to be particularly fond of that animal? If they did not develop a
phobia or
any negative feelings towards that animal then either.
1) The observed dog at the time of the incident can't be connected visually to other dogs (didn't know that was the animal)
2) The individual did have positive experiences with dogs after the fact (maybe with another but similar animal).
3) The experience was forgotten completely, which I find unlikely if is was emotionally stimulating.
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Originally Posted by Maven
And growing up in a Catholic family most certainly does not mean you will be Catholic, too. (And it's "You're going to believe..." not "your.") I know of many people who grew up with one set of beliefs and followed a different set. I've known atheists who said they never bought into their parents' beliefs. I was raised somewhat Christian (not attending church regularly, but we considered ourselves Christians), but I'm agnostic, and have been since my early 20's. Now that has to do with experiences.
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You miss the point. It is not that they will believe the same thing, the point is that it has an effect on that individual, which shapes who they are. They may become extremely religious, or extremely atheist, or anywhere in between but the experience of the type of family they grew up with still played a role in who that person is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maven
I know some people will disagree with me, but the way I see it, you don't choose your beliefs. Something convinces you that something is at least a possibility if not a fact. People who believe in God have experiences they think prove God, or they want to believe in Heaven and a loving God so much, that they accept evidence that may or may not be strong. We want to believe, so we believe. Madalyn Murray O'Hare was a famous atheist, but her son, William grew up to be extremely Christian.
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This is exactly it, we do appear to chose our religion but we do not. This applies to everything on the grand scale of things, we 'chose' things based on past experience. You may say "well I have chosen things in spite of past experiences" well then the past experiences still influenced you! Because you are doing something because of them.
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Originally Posted by Chopin99
I believe we are shaped by our experiences over time and that those experiences cause perception to be fluid. I also believe that if we decide to change our perceptions that stem from our environmental experiences, we can work to do so. I would call what you describe as skewed perceptions either filters or lenses through which we see the world; albeit everyone's filters are different based on experience and choice.
I'll use religion as an example because you did. In my case, I was raised in a non-churchgoing home with traditional values, but all 13 years of my schooling was in a fundamentalist Christian sect. I am still affected by my experiences at that parochial school; however, I am working to change those automatic perceptions in therapy. I have had success with this.
Now think of someone who has autism; they view the world through a biologically programmed filter on top of the filters or lenses of experience. It is difficult to overcome a biological filter. People have much less choice over that.
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Our perception is like a fluid in a container really. The fluid can be different colours, and viscosities and the container can be different sizes. There are so many variables to perception but I think they all stem from experience. You say they stem from experience and choice, but where does choice stem from? if you try a dirt cone then a chocolate ice cream cone, chances are based on the desirable stimulation you get from the experience of the chocolate over the dirt you will always chose chocolate over dirt. This is a black and white example. For things that aren't as 'good and bad' you may cycle but with higher probability of choosing the favourite. The most sensory pleasing.
You are chosing to alter your perceptions through therapy (experience) based on choice. The choice is because of experiences that you found unpleasant, you would not have made this decision if life was perfect how it was before.
Well, I have High Functioning Autism, Aspergers. Choice is the result of an accumulation of information from experiences. You can not overcome a filter, you can only change it. It only changes with experience, have you ever said that you were going to stop procrastinating and didn't? most of the time this happens. Until you actually get out there and do it, the experiences wont be built in favour of doing that thing.
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Originally Posted by Fresia
I agree in that experiences help shape us but there is also a matter of choice as Anika mentions above; choosing our perception can shape experiences. If we choose to change our perception and to choose a different perspective (immaterial of any experience), we then can shape experiences to help that choice, and thereby help shape experience or use experiences to reinforce our perceptions. Sometimes we have to first choose to change our perception to influence our experience, even if it is contrary to our initial experiences or even perceptions. Perception and experience influence each other on equal ground depending on how open and willing we are to change.
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Choice is the result of an accumulation of information from experiences.