It's really hard Blue. All you can do is put it all in front of them and try to help guide them, ultimately it is there choice id they are going to take it or not. Teens especially seem to live in another dimention. They honestly do not think like adults or children. Children actually seem closer to adults in this way.. teens are something else. Like this veil is lowered and they cannot seem to see through it for a good while there. If that curtain gets to thick they might never see theough it. Haed to have wait for it to come.

I have never had that kind of money ever. I have no idea what I would do. God why is helping people so pricey?? It's really crazy and sad. Most people can't afford it. Don't feel bad about that.

Hmm I am very weary about "ranches" specially if they target troubled youth or youth will mental illness. Or sometimes they are called residential wilderness therapy programs or whatever. I am sure some of them are good while others are really really. I have read so many horror stories coming out of these under regulated camps, retreats or residential facilities. Abuse, death of children, starvation, humiliation... It's horrible and they are charging parents thousands of thousands of dollars to abuse their children.

Just saying be careful about these places, if you did go that route show up unanounced a few times and talk to parents whos children have already been there and lots of them. I don't even know if that is the type of ranch you mean, just would not want that tobhappennto your son or you.

Glad you found a new friend Blue, who you connect with on a few levels... that is really great!!! I hope that blossoms well, you could use a good friend irl. And you deserve some great friends. I'd hang out with with you in a heartbeat !!! Half a heartbeat ?

Hmm drag him to yoga with your friend. I'm not kidding. Don't know if you can drag him anywhere.

My son is alot younger, my youngest. But he has had some problems with depression. I got him to watch videos on the secret, jon kabot zinn on mindfulness, some science vids that are inspiring to living.. Some breathing videos. It really helped him a lot. Especially the secret, he watched that and immediatly pulled himself out of that hole. I had the same experience with it. That is his favorite to watch when he starts to slide.

Might not work with your older son though it might spark some ideas in him. But it might work well for your youngest son. I was suprized my son grasped the concepts so easily and he was engaged in it. He is 11 and we were in the store the other day and he asked me if most people are consciously unawake, and if so.. do they know or do they just not care? Uhh huh ?? Even I was stumped to answer that one. He has always been like that tho, always seems like an old man in a little body. Old soul. The videos he watched never said that, I don't talk aboutthat with them. He is says things like that a lot tho.

I know your oldest has done a lot of therapy, but sometimes it helps to see this stuff in a non clinical setting by someone who is very engaging and sincere. Humble... Conviction, therapists sometimes lack these traits and just talk unpasionately. Makes it hard to really hear them with all senses.

Ahh I don't know Blue, I wish I did...