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I was struggling with my dx of BPD and was struggling with how I could possibly live with myself and expect others to tolerate my presence when theorists viewed me as an attention seeking manipulative liar. Then I discovered Linehan. I'd thoroughly reccomend the book to anyone.

She talks about how therapists have this unfortunate tendancy to blame the victim. Basically, therapist feels inadequate so judges the client to be 'demanding'. Patient needs more attention than therapist can provide and therapist judges client to be 'attention seeking'. Therapist feels manipulated so judges the client to be 'manipulative'. And so it goes on...

She says that therapists and clients both need to learn to lift the judgement.

She does indeed say that people with borderline personality aren't manipulative in the traditional sense. Then she goes on to reclaim the word. Like how black people reclaimed 'n*gger' she reclaims 'manipulative' and says the trouble with people with BPD is that they aren't manipulative enough.

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Went to the site you have posted. (Yeeesh, I keep forgetting just how complicated this disorder is. Man, it's a wonder we have any sanity in us at all with all we get to deal with).

Though I haven't read any of Linehan's books, I do remember reading about how we are thought of amongst those in the mental health profession and how the term "manipuation" is always used. (Think I just got myself twisted about the term "manipulative" - must be a trigger, eh?)

I don't know about you, but I am very intense in my sessions, and I do demand alot from them, both intellectually and emotionally. If I am burnt out after a session, I can only imagine what they must feel like after 2 or 3 individual sessions or after a 2 hour session with a dozen of "me's"(sp?), day after day. Hell, I get so sick of trying to rationalize with myself, I can't imagine the constant pounding it takes on their sanity to help ones like me rationalize with myself properly and consistently . And this is their profession - putting their own sanity on the line?

I purposefully read a few essays/reviews about DBT on this very topic because I was totally outrageous in group sessions, yet totally focused and demanded very deep intellectual discussions with my one-on-one therapist. I truly put them through the paces, as I feel I do with all my personal relationships. If I couldn't figure out how to change this aspect, I wouldn't be able to return to therapy, both because of my behaviour (in group) and my own guilt and shame, thus my search to see what the therapists were "really" saying about treatment of borderlines.

I guess I was hoping to gain more sympathy for them (it's hard for me to have sympathy for a therapist (who chooses that profession) sometimes, mostly because it is hard for me to believe that they actually believe my pain is as deep as it is and that I am truly hurting - about everything, all the time).

Anyway, I recognize clearly, the manipulative aspects of my personality, I guess I don't like that the idea of reclaiming that specific word with it's clearly negative connotations, such as the n word (which I also find disheartening).

You know, I find that quite a few people these days, manipulate without considering the "feelings" of others (I would like to say most , but I'm probably being overly paranoid and dramatic here). It just seems that everyone, these days, are more individually minded and thus, more self-centered and selfish as a result (especially the techno generation?).

It's actually interesting that so many therapists would allow themselves to "feel" so manipulated when they are the ones in total control. Can we take heart in the fact that we have the best of the therapists helping us, since it takes so much will and strength to treat us?

We must be remarkably powerful ourselves, too...