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ultramar · Jul 21, 2013, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandrec

That might be so. We don't use the DSM here, so I don't know (we use ICD, which is confusing. Don't actually know what ICD says either, but frankly it's not that important to me). Even so, which I think people here have told you before, there can be mixed states in bipolar II. And they are very bad, even though it's not bipolar I. Most of my episodes are mixed to some degree (yes I am being obnoxiously liberal with my terms), and they are worse than skull-crushing depression, so while I totally understand that you'd like to stay true to the DSM, I'd also like you to know that, yes, there are mixed states in bipolar II (maybe not defined by the DSM), and they suck. I'm not sure how to explain this clearer, but rest assured what I am talking about is not normal moods at all. And yes, I am able to tell the difference.

I might be reading too much into your posts, but you seem to have strong feelings about rapid cycling, mixed states and bipolar II. Is there a reason for why you discuss this all the time even when it doesn't apply to you? Surely you can accept that bipolar is more than what the DSM says, and surely you can accept that people with bipolar II can experience mixed moods even though the DSM says otherwise? I'm really not interested in comparing and figuring out what is worse, who's entitled to call what what, etc. I just want to make it clear that mixed bipolar II is real (and the DSM doesn't trump reality).

Then again, maybe all of this just boils down to us using words differently. And that is OK, right? They don't always mean the same to all of us.

I found this blog after a quick Google search. Mixed Bipolar Disorder – Mixed Mood Episodes in Bipolar 2 | Bipolar Burble Blog | Natasha Tracy. And I'm not sure if that is outdated or not but on the bottom there is a link to some proposed changes in DSM-V regarding mixed states. At any rate I thought it would be relevant to the discussion.

The DSM is very clear on the existence of Bipolar II and I personally do not deny this at all! The difference of opinion, if and when there is one, is if bipolar II constitutes constant (or near-constant) fluctuations of mood.

Re mixed states, I actually went back and read a link, maybe it was yours, and at the beginning it said mixed is only bipolar I, later on both, I think I've read this before as well. I was actually going to reply here on that. You're absolutely right, of course, and I'm sorry I jumped the gun on that one. So, yes, and I get that mixed exists whatever the diagnosis. But regardless of diagnosis, I was just pointing out that although it could be a mixed state (in general), I don't think any mood is 100% pure; there was actually an interesting thread exploring this some time ago. But this doesn't mean that mixed states aren't very very real and horrible. This happened to me once when I tried to lower one of my medications -it was awful.

I also don't personally 'deny' (can't think of a better word), the existence of rapid cycling, at all. Many people have several episodes a year, for example. What tends to baffle me, though, are rapid cycles defined as a constant (minutes, hour, day) roller coaster of emotions/moods. I can see it happening sometimes, absolutely, I just can't wrap my head around an ongoing/continual, long-term, roller coaster pattern in the context of bipolar.

The point of this thread wasn't to denigrate or deny rapid cycling (though my conception of it [not just because of DSM actually, but other things I've read, what psychiatrists have said when I've asked about it] may be different than some) but to see if there are others out there with as relatively infrequent (as represented on this board) episodes as I have. Sometimes I feel alone here, and wanting to know if there was anyone who could identify with how things work for me. As other people do with, 'Does anyone else...'

I think a lot of people here are trying to find some solidarity in how they personally experience things, I was looking for that here. I think, though, me going off on a tangent on this thread confused things -I am sorry for that.