very true on all counts

It seems like a weakness as in "insecurity, lack of solid sense of self / identity", yes, but I acknowledge Roadkill's take on it as well (see above). Some people like it and like the feeling good and not just looking good. And, 45 minutes a day is not hours at the gym.

Another thing is about what a man is doing with his life. Since I expect men to be doing something worthwhile with their lives, if they are spending too much time at the gym (outside of training for something), then the question is - why do they not have something pressingly and overwhelmingly interesting to occupy them enough so that they would NOT have so many hours for being at the gym...

There is also, and most definitely, a search for commonality, and I hired a lawyer (who turned out to be great) based on that. I interviewed a woman who seemed all OK, but her professional look (a suit), her make-up (way too much and the kind of make-up that clashes with the natural look of the face rather than accentuates, subtly, the natural look of the face, and I hate that kind of make-up with passion - I am not against all make-up, no!), her costume jewelry (uninteresting, uncreative kind of costume jewelry that you would expect to see with her formal suit and such make-up as she wore... let me explain by saying what it was NOT: not bohemian or vintage or anything worthy of note in my book - mass-produced costume jewelry yuck yuck yuck) all put me off.

And I hired a wonderful guy whose shirts are a bit wrinkled and whose jeans do not exactly fit him well (are a bit relaxed, just a bit off).

And, I am very happy with him because he and I are cut from the same cloth. I do realize that appearance correlates with work performance - just as he does not care enough about having well-ironed shirts, and, just as his nails are trimmed too short because he apparently does not like trimming them so he trims as much as he can, so, also, he...

...sometimes forgets where he puts this or that document...

...sometimes is a bit late if I meet him in the office at 9AM...

...but the outcome is still fine - he gets the work done.

I realize that the woman in costume jewelry probably never forgets where she puts documents...

...is probably never late...

...but it does not mean that the outcome would have been better with her.

And since I am sometimes a bit late... and, not always is my hair completely detangled (it is detangled, but not completely)...but, I also do get the job done at my work...

...I prefer to deal with people who are a bit sloppy and yet get the job done since with such people I kind of feel more comfortable. More at ease.

So appearance reflects personality. So for now, since I care enough not to have a lawyer who looks too neat, I certainly care enough not to have boyfriends who are too neat and polished. Or, god forbid, preoccupied with appearance.

That said, since I do get messages from younger men on OKC, and some of them have several photos such that on a couple of them I see their muscles, and on others I see their faces, and, their faces do not appear dumb at all, I say to myself: these kids are not at fault. They are fine people who might be interesting, nice, and all the rest of that. Their culture expects them to be this way, so one should not discriminate against them based on that. Imagine yourself living under that kind of pressure from mass media.

So hopefully if I keep thinking along these lines of not discriminating based on appearance, I will eventually reconcile myself with the notion of dating guys with waxed/shaved torsos. I will keep you posted .

I know very little about it. I know about this guy I described above and my two children. This guy said that he trained so much as a sprinter (sprinting=all-out short term effort) that he developed the sprinter twitch, and that later he could not change the sprinter twitch into long-distance runner twitch (I am not using the right terminology - this is something I heard a few times several years ago).

My son: skinny, 6 ft, very well coordinated (played competitive badminton - a tennis-like racket sport that, like tennis, can be played 1:1 or 2:2; requires speed of reaction, jumpiness, and a whole host of other things but not that much strength). Played competitive basketball for his college (so, high enough level). Eventually stopped since the coach required ALL of his time - he struggled with keeping up with the academic assignments. So he stopped. Now he wants to train for a marathon. He has the right kind of legs - very skinny. To your point about developing whatever the right muscles are per sport - to the best of my, admittedly lay, understanding, no. Say, my son, after several years of playing basketball, still does not have a body of a typical basketball player. He still has a body of a marathon runner...

My younger daughter is doing competitive gymnastics (3 hour training sessions 4-5 times a week). She has the right body for that: very short, muscular, and flexible. Her legs are not long, but are perfectly shaped. She was always the shortest white kid in her classroom (of course, some Vietnamese girls were shorter, but that is genetics). Her muscles did get stronger and more defined through her training, but it is not that she was not muscular before she started. The sports just developed and added to her inherently strong musculature. Her older sister is tall and skinny and has the same kind of legs as my son - skinny. I remember somebody wrote it about Julia Roberts' legs - that they are simply long and skinny. Same for my older daughter - her legs are simply long and skinny, but not outrageously shapely. Legs that are outrageously shapely are so shapely thanks to the underlying muscle structure. So, if you do not have the underlying muscle structure, there is not that much you can do. If my older daughter takes gymnastics (she does not want to because she is too lazy for that; plus, she is too tall), she still would not get her younger sister's legs. She would never get her younger sister's legs because she simply has a different build.

genetics genetics genetics

genetics genetics genetics

It is a big similar with weight - the society believes that you can control weight, by and large. Well, not quite, and, in part, it is because of genetics genetics genetics.

So, with sports, what is probably happening is that people SELF-SELECT into what they are good at. Short muscular girls self-select into gymnastics because they are good at it from the start. Skinny boys with good endurance self-select in long-distance running. People with superior coordination (they are Chinese, usually) self-select into ping-ping (table tennis).

And then, once people find a sport that is right for them because their bodies are naturally good at that sport, they improve and refine what they got in the first place (genetically).