Jon a lot of your observations also have a lot to do with perception and one's own state of recovery.

I mention that because to me it is kind of funny that you said this... I was a member of three or four other online support sites for depression before I found this one, and the reason I left those places was because to me, they felt like exactly what you are describing... a lot of complaining and comforting but not many looking for real progress or solutions. It was very notable to me and very much turned me off... not as a judgement of them, just as not the type of thing I was looking for.

I obviously perceive this place much differently than you do (hey, that's one of the best and most interesting of human attributes) because I think the majority here are trying to get better or are on the road to better health and looking for more encouragement. Many people are quite negative, but it "feels" to me like they come here to get that "kick in the pants" that they know they need. The few who don't often get called out for it (sometimes not too pleasantly ).

To me, taken in context, I don't find many here looking to merely "wallow". Individual posts may do so--some of mine have lately I know, but most people here also know how hard I have been working for about 8 months now to force myself to do the difficult things to try to get better and be able to get on with my life. I absolutely agree that people have to be working toward progress, but at times when there are setbacks I also think it is OK to post a "down" post, just to vent, sometimes we all need a break, and it is good to do it with people who "get it" because IRL we would likely be critisized by people who don't understand how difficult this can be.

You're post also made me think about the occasional "pity party" posts and specifically that is the kind of thing that turned me off at other sites. I enjoy them here because they are lighthearted, they are "attended" by people who are working hard to get better and some who have made great progress in doing so. To me they are almost a "spoof" of the "pity parties" I see at other sites. A ton of people feeling getting together to feel sorry for themselves and wallow in their neediness is a bad thing... a ton of people feeling bad and choosing for a short time to take a break and acknowledge their pain seems quite different to me. (YMMV . Especially when those threads have a lot of jokes and cyberfood in them .

To touch an even sharper nerve of my own... there's a difference between people who crawl into a hole because they need for someone to come drag them out of that hole (and of course there's usually a whole lot of disappointment for them when that doesn't happen) and people who climb in a hole because they need a break and invite others to come take a break with them. To me, these other websites seemed "safe" in that if one posted climbing into a hole they were pretty much guaranteed of getting support and strokes toward coming out again. We all need that once in a while but to do that with expectations can be very unhealthy... and is exactly the kind of "comfort with their pain" that I think you are talking about. It becomes about secondary gain. I don't think that is tolerated for too long here... of course doing that or not doing that is another point of subjective perspective.

One thing I like here is when someone is feeling really down, they are free to post about it and also free to ask for support. In my eyes, climbing into a hole merely to make someone come in to drag you out is manipulative and unhealthy. Here people are free to come straight out and ask for a hug or for some well-wishes if they need them, and to me that is very healthy... a healthier situation than exists generally in our society I think.

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