Thanks Kimmydawn.

The relationship between the subjective and the objective is tricky.

If people stuck to saying / reporting what they believe then that is comparatively subjective.

If people make claims about what the majority of people believe then that is a claim that can be true or false, however, as it depends on surveys of what people state they do believe.

If people make claims about objective truth then that is also a claim that can be true or false as it depends on the way the world turns out.

I agree that if I say 'I like vanilla ice-cream better than chocolate' it is pointless for you to say 'no you don't you like chocolate better'. Though... What if you said 'I like vanilla ice-cream better than chocolate' but whenever you have the choice you consistently take the chocolate over the vanilla? (The point of that little example is that self-report is only one indicator of a persons beliefs and most people grant that beliefs can be unconscious or not available to the person). If I say 'vanilla ice-cream is better than chocolate' then what does that mean? Probably means 'if you survey people then the majority will state that their preference is vanilla'. Might mean that if given the option the majority will pick vanilla over chocolate. Might mean that people will pay more for vanilla than they will for chocolate.

There are useful discussions to be had...

Mostly... I think the problems come of people making objective claims...

Where one... Isn't allowed to provide evidence to the contrary (is that really the case here?)

Or of people asking objective questions and people making objective claims instead of just adding their personal beliefs into the mix...

Oh well.