thank u Perna, that's really well said...different methods do work for different ppl and for me, admitting that i was powerless or anything along those lines would not have done much for me at all, b/c i am of a more defiant nature. h/ever for someone who is more passive or compliant it might, and i guess AA is proof of this. i'm glad that there are many ppl AA has worked for, but for those who it hasn't there are always other methods that might just put tyhem on the road to recovery