hmm... i still fail to see the difference...

once again, i will re-iterate that i'm not at all trying to be sarcastic or smart... but i still struggle with the difference.

where is this coming from?

part of my worry...

delusion. the DSM defines delusion as 'a radically false belief based on incorret inference held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary that is different to what others believe' (roughly that is the definition).

the definition has been questioned on every substantial point that it makes. it is arguable / controversial whether delusions must be:

1) false (if you have the delusion your partner is unfaithful then eventually this might lead in your partner being unfaithful though you can develop the delusion before they are unfaithful and even when they are unfaithful this would still (arguably) be a delusion
2) beliefs (other candidates include 'imaginings mis-identified as beliefs' or other such states)
3) inferences (e.g., they might be given on the basis of a cerebral injury to a particular area such as face recognition in instances where people claim that people who are known to them are replaced by impostors because they literally can't affectively recognise them)
4) inferences that are different from the inferences of non-delusional subjects (if the content is given by experience then no inference is necessary)
5) held despite incontrovertiable evidence (what counts as 'incontrovertiable'? the cogito? nothing (much) is incontrovertatible in life...)
6) held despite the beliefs of others (surely a mass cult counts as a mass delusion)

in the face of the 6th point (in particular) there IS a lot of controversy over how much religious beliefs just are mass delusions.

for example:

in the catholic faith part of the belief of the religion is that literally the communion wine JUST IS transformed into the blood of christ. so people who partake in communion are LITERALLY drinking the blood of christ.

how is this belief different to 'my wife has been replaced by an impostor'?

and there are other religious beliefs (of all the major religions) of course.

is the only identifying characteristic between a cult (where there can be mass delusion) and a religion (where the DSM says that religious beliefs DO NOT count as delusional) a function of such facts as:

1) how many followers believe it. e.g., not terribly many are convinced that ufo's will take them to heaven whereas there are many more catholics (where the official party line of the religion is that they are literally drinking the blood of christ)
2) how recent the movement is. e.g., the older the more it is a 'religion' and the more recent the more it is a 'cult' (hence can be delusional)

note:

one can't cite the bible to defend that the bible is the word of god (compared to words of a cult) because the argument would have to run like this

1) the bible is the word of god (how do i know this)
______________________________________________________
2) i know the bible is the word of god because the bible tells me so

why would someone accept 2 if i don't accept 1 already?
and why would i accept 1 if i don't accept 2?

how about the hindu bible?
or the many other bibles that are out there?
how about manuscripts that say the ufo's will come from heaven and take us up to it?
how about the doctrines of the church of the flying spaghetti monster?

i don't understand the difference between a cult and a religion.
and i don't understand the difference between cult beliefs and religious beliefs and delusional beliefs.

that doesn't mean that there isn't a difference, of course...

but this is something that is currently a matter of controversy...

if people can think of a relevant difference then i would be really very interested in that.

sure, cults are sense-making things...
but then so are religions...

i guess i'm still failing to grasp the difference...

quite genuinely...

(and this is in part why the DSM is considered to have 'arbitary' exclusion criteria. and it is also why there is current debate as to whether religious belief counts as a delusion. i've said this before... but i guess i didn't make clear that i was really very serious with that comment and that... this is why)