I'm not trying to debate this. I recognized that we will probably see it differently. And if anyone would like I can explain in PM how my understanding still fits with what Sept. has posted, but we need to keep religious debate out of this.

I probably didn't make my point clearly enough, but jmo asked why God didn't forgive Adam. I was offering the alternative that being cast out, and the earth being cursed, and the pain of childbirth, etc. are not punishment but part of God's plan.

Yes, and it was also imperative that they not eat from the tree of life and be unable to progress.

If we could have all lived in the Garden of Eden and not in the Earth as we know it, we would not have been able to gain the experience that we needed from our time on Earth. We wouldn't have known pain and suffering and all of the bad things, but we wouldn't understand any of the opposites, the good things, either, or be able to appreciate joy and health and love and all that is good.