Thread: NA Meetings
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Old Apr 29, 2014, 11:33 AM
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Location: Michigan
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I can't totally disagree with you because in the case of my Dad, who was a hard core alcoholic his whole life into his forties, got sober after my family did an intervention with a counselor. He has never been to therapy and has never been to an AA meeting. As far as I can tell he did it under his own will power. I don''t understand it but that is his story. Now whether some unknown not understandable force in the universe intervened at that moment I have no idea. He doesn't really talk about it. He has been sober over twenty years. Whether he could take up drinking today and drink moderately, I highly doubt it.

I have primarily my experience to draw on. You will never convince me that my alcoholism/addiction doesn't have a genetic/biological component to some degree. I tried for years to quit under all the will power I could muster to no avail. It didn't work. That is why I went to AA. It worked.

The vast majority of people don't just up and decide willy nilly that I will join AA today. They only do it after much suffering and many attempts to beat it on their own. To them and me its the last house on the block so to speak. We have some hope that there is something out there that will work so we go. It has been proven to work for many decades for many people. In my experience most of the psychiatric community will encourage you to go.

I am not one who believes AA is the only way. Or that it is impossible for someone to return to moderate use. (rare case in my view). The universe and life is way to vast and complex to be so narrow minded.

Addiction is a "thing" is not much of a definition. There is a lot of controversy over the DSM 5 and its reliance on symptom based DX's. (michanne will be happy to hear me say that). It does however call addiction a disorder. It is still symptom based and not evidence based.

The NIMH Withdraws Support for DSM-5 | Psychology Today

To say that the disease concept is only embraced by AA and that the medical community has rejected it is totally not true. Here is what NIH has to say about it. Based on scientific evidence.
The Science of Addiction: Drugs, Brains, and Behavior
Quote:
Two NIH institutes that are already on the forefront of research into drug and alcohol addiction recently joined with cable TV network HBO to present an unprecedented multi–platform film, TV, and print campaign aimed at helping Americans understand addiction as a chronic but treatable brain disease.
https://science.education.nih.gov/su...de/essence.htm

Here is from Harvard
How addiction hijacks the brain - Harvard Health Publications
Quote:
The scientific consensus has changed since then. Today we recognize addiction as a chronic disease that changes both brain structure and function. Just as cardiovascular disease damages the heart and diabetes impairs the pancreas, addiction hijacks the brain. Recovery from addiction involves willpower, certainly, but it is not enough to "just say no" — as the 1980s slogan suggested. Instead, people typically use multiple strategies — including psychotherapy, medication, and self-care — as they try to break the grip of an addiction.
Here is the Mayo Clinic Definition.
Alcoholism Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic
Quote:
Alcoholism is a chronic and often progressive disease that includes problems controlling your drinking, being preoccupied with alcohol, continuing to use alcohol even when it causes problems, having to drink more to get the same effect (physical dependence), or having withdrawal symptoms when you rapidly decrease or stop drinking. If you have alcoholism, you can't consistently predict how much you'll drink, how long you'll drink, or what consequences will occur from your drinking.
John Hopkins calls it a brain disorder.
Substance Abuse/Chemical Dependency | Johns Hopkins Medicine Health Library
Quote:
Substance (drug) abuse (alcohol or other drugs). Substance abuse is the medical term used to describe a pattern of substance (drug) use that causes significant problems or distress, such as failure to attend work or school, substance use in dangerous situations (driving a car), substance-related legal problems, or continued substance use that interferes with friendships and/or family relationships. Substance abuse, as a recognized medical brain disorder, refers to the abuse of illegal (such as marijuana, heroin, cocaine, or methamphetamine)or legal substances (such as alcohol, nicotine, or prescription drugs). Alcohol is the most common legal drug of abuse.
So I am pointing to 4 very reputable institutions that are calling it a disease or brain disorder.

Here is UofM's areas of research. Univ of Michigan is a very reputable medical center.
Major Research Themes at the U-M Addiction Research Center
Here is from Stanford who is probably more in line with your view.
Neuroscience of need - Understanding the addicted mind - 2012 SPRING - Stanford Medicine Magazine - Stanford University School of Medicine
Quote:
This new understanding of addiction’s long-term grip has policy implications: A short-term detox stint to rid the body of the unwanted chemical just won’t cut it. Authorities have to be prepared to treat addiction as they would any chronic disease, even though that implies long-haul and therefore costlier treatment (it’s still a lot cheaper than imprisonment). An equally important implication: They must also try their best — from both health and cost standpoints — to prevent people from starting down that lonely, dangerous road in the first place.
So to insinuate that the medical and psychiatric community has totally rejected the disease concept is just false.

You are pointing to one blog by a guy. Of course it is a very complicated issue, and not all people who abuse alcohol or drugs are addicts. AA was originally designed for very hard core alcoholics who had no hope of ever getting better. Now there are all kinds of people who go including very young people who could probably quit easily without AA.

The reason politicians and the criminal justice system look to 12 step programs is because they work. It was never AA's intent for politicians and courts to look to them for solutions. It is based on attraction and one alcoholic helping another. Anyone can choose whatever form of treatment works for them.

It's a proven method of treatment. It is that simple. to say that it is harming society is ludicrous. Do you do your own dental work? Of course not. We all need help in many areas of our life. To say that one should rely totally on their own will power and resources is crazy. It takes a tribe.
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The "paradox" is only a conflict between reality and your feeling of what reality "ought to be." -- Richard Feynman

Major Depressive Disorder
Anxiety Disorder with some paranoid delusions thrown in for fun.
Recovering Alcoholic and Addict
Possibly on low end of bi polar spectrum...trying to decide.

Male, 50

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