Quote:
Originally Posted by zinco14532323
I can't totally agree. I know it is very complicated and no one has to adopt the concepts and philosophy of AA. That is a free choice.
What do you mean when you say "when someone chooses to deal with their problems head on the need for alcohol goes away." How does that person deal with their problems? Do they need help? Or can they handle all their problems and addictions totally on their own under their own free will?
Some people can have addiction and not have an addictive personality or be an addict in any sense of the word. My ex wife is a good example. She was a coke head and cigarette smoker for a long time. She got pregnant and quit everything cold turkey without a problem and never touched anything again. She is not an addict.
Many people are powerless and don't have a choice. To me alcoholism and addiction is the same, alcohol is a drug, and I could switch drugs of choice all the time. But to keep it simple i will stick to alcohol.
I was genetically predisposed to alcoholism. My dad, my grandpa, all through both sides of the family. Environment plays a role because obviously if I had never touched a drink I would never have become and alcoholic. But I did and I drank so much for enough years I progressed into a full blown alcoholic. I tried for many years under all the will power I could muster many times and just could not do it. It was bigger and more powerful than me. I was definitely powerless. No matter how hard i tried at some point I was going to pick up again.
The concept of admitting you are powerless means that you have admitted that you just can't beat this thing on your own. You need help. It is a paradox. By admitting you are powerless you gain power.
Then there are the physical aspects and brain chemistry aspects to addiction and alcoholism.
There is no doubt there is such a thing as the phenomenon of craving. This means that most of the time once I get three or four drinks in me this overwhelming craving takes over and I just cannot stop drinking until I pass out or all the booze is gone and the stores are closed. I have heard hundreds of alcoholics describe the exact same thing.
People metabolize alcohol differently. Alcoholic definitely metabolize it differently than normal drinkers. Some people metabolize it in such a way that it has horrible effects and they never drink. It is believed that how alcoholic metabolize alcohol is what causes this phenomenon of craving.
It is not proven and there are lots of studies but it is believed that people born with addictive personalities have different brain chemistry than people who are not. Of course you can use a lot of any addictive substance and change your brain chemistry so that you are addicted to the substance. People can get through withdrawal and quit with out much difficulty like my ex wife who was addicted to coke. These people are not addicts in my view.
If you want to find out if you are powerless or not totally quit all drug and alcohol use for a year and see if you can do it. Prescription drugs taken as prescribed don't count. Some people can do it. No way I could. I was powerless. Might sound like a cop out but it is not. I gained huge power in admitting I needed help and couldn't do it alone. AA enabled me to gain power over alcohol and I am recovered.
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good discussion, let me elaborate. when i say choose to deal with their problems i mean to get to the heart of the problem without abusing a substance, alcohol,coke,meth and heroin whatever you choose they are all crutches.
let's say you have guy "a" he gets laid off from a job or is going through a divorce. there are several ways to approach the problem he could..
a) say, damn i just lost my job/wife..what am i gonna do i'm ****ed i gotta pay for this,that and the other. i need a drink..and start drinking/using.
b) accept responsibility for his part in the situation and begin looking for a new job/wife/gf/so
c) enlist the support of family and friends to help him get through a rough period in his life.
d) enlist the support of a local church or support group.
some people need help, others don't..but at the end of the day every single time you pick up that bottle, pick up that pipe, pick up that rig it is a conscious choice..a lot of it has to do with self control, " i like doing it and i don't care about the consequences".
some people may be genetically pre disposed to "alcoholism" but that doesn't give them a free pass on their responsibility to themselves and their loved ones, i just have a really hard time with the idea of being "powerless" i just don't believe that to be true. people can walk away they choose not to
my ex is 13 yrs clean from meth, used to do a lot of it..stole some checks from her mom & went to jail, she quit hasn't touched it since. i have another ex in prison right now, heroin addict. she did 4 months last summer/fall got out for 10 days went on a drug rampage violated with a dirty drop, 6 more months. got out for about 30 days still using o.d. and almost died ambulance came caught another case and is in prison now..she chooses not to stop 2 people confronted with the same situation but different choices and different outcomes.
i will use myself as an example, i'm a pretty heavy drinker when i drink, i quit for a year and a half..no problem. i started messing around with the girl with the heroin problem and started drinking again, can i stop..sure. do i want to not really. if i needed to stop or really wanted to stop could i?? absolutely.
the cravings have a lot to do with "self control" i want, i want, i want..we like to say "we need" but really its "we want ". i have been drinking for 25yrs, i stopped no problem when i was with my ex that did the meth, i got drunk one night called her a "****" (she hates that word) and i didn't remember saying it the next day, i said that's a problem and it was induced by alcohol, so i quit
just like that..was i *****y,absolutely.. irritable. she said it wasn't easy living with me when i was coming off of it, not at all. but i made a conscious choice not to do it again.
damn what i like, damn what i want..this is causing a problem so i need to stop..period.
i will use you for an example now, you needed help, AA worked for you
in my eyes you are not an addict, you don't use. it's not controlling you anymore.for me it doesn't matter how you get there,just that you do.
some people use AA, others meditation and mindfulness, others just walk away when it creates enough of a problem in their lives.each case is different.
so once you get into the habit of dealing with the problem at hand, the need for alcohol does go away, alcoholism and drug abuse are learned behaviors.
sure some people are more likely to abuse than others but at the end of the day every single one of us has a choice " to use or not to use"
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I have learned that i and i alone am responsible for my happiness, most people these days are as reliable as wet toilet paper!
