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Originally Posted by zinco14532323
I agree with you that alcoholism and addiction is a very complicated issue and one size does not fit all in my view. It could be a huge spectrum with many reasons and causes just like mental illness. We are all so very different genetically, biologically, environmentally, the tools we have to deal with problems.
Maybe the guy who loses his job and gets divorced never learned the tools to deal with it and only knows to turn to the drink. Hopefully he will choose to get the help he needs and learn the tools without alcohol.
I absolutely agree with you that I am responsible for every action, thought, feeling, anything I said or did to anyone, everything from day one. You could argue about how responsible a baby or a small child is for what happens to them, but I will take responsibility from day one. I am responsible for every drink and hit I took. For hurting my wife and child. I am responsible for my treatment and recovery and to get the help I need. Actually this is what AA totally teaches in spite of some misconceptions of it.
I chose, actually from working the steps, to look at it this way. I am not at fault or to blame for my depression, my alcoholism, my addiction, BUT I am totally responsible for them. To me there is a huge difference between fault and blame and responsibility. I was very shamed based and blamed myself for everything.....I am such a loser, I can't do anything right, f this and f that. I turned my anger inward. So I chose to take blame and fault totally out of the equation. I am not to blame, my wife is not to blame, my parents are not to blame, no one is to blame. It is just the way life is and this is the hand I was dealt. I am totally responsible to do something about it. There is a big sign in most AA rooms that says "I am Responsible." The steps are all about excepting responsibility and to quit blaming the world for your problems. You have to take responsibility for your resentments and get rid on them. You learn to look only at your part in things. You keep your side of the street clean. Where was I wrong? What do I need to change? Your part of it is none of my business. That is a big part of the philosophy.
I started a thread on it along time ago.
http://forums.psychcentral.com/depre...nsibility.html
It is certainly a crutch no doubt about that. Lets say the guy who loses his job and his wife leaves him and he dives into the bottle and then one day says I am going to my church to get help, and he finds the help he needs to deal with his problems without drinking. Couldn't you in a sense say he was powerless to do anything about it on his own, he needed help. He admitted he couldn't do it alone and chose to seek help thus being empowered.
You will never convince me personally that I was not powerless over my alcoholism/addiction. It has nothing to do with blame or it being a cop out. It is a paradox. By admitting you are powerless you are empowered.
I chose to take blame and fault out of it and replace it with forgiveness and responsibility. That is what has worked for me.
I strongly disagree. For many many people it is just not true. I am one. It is just not that simple. Sure alcohol abuse and drug abuse are learned behaviours. For many they are genetically and biologically predisposed to those behaviours but environment has to play a role. For many people those behaviours get so biologically, psychologically, sociologically ingrained that they become powerless over them. They can't just simply choose to walk away. They need a tremendous amount of help and support.
You have posted quite a bit about you struggles with addiction. Let me ask you this. When you quit drinking for a year and a half did you substitute with something else? Did you end up going back to drinking or some other drug? Have you ever started drinking and had that overwhelming craving take over and just could not stop drinking until you passed out or the booze was gone? You say you blacked out and called your gf a ***** and that is what prompted you to quit, how many times have you had black outs? You say you can quit any time you want, absolutely. But can you without help?
I am not saying at all you are an alcoholic or an addict. I don't know. Maybe you can totally walk away from it without any trouble. Actually my dad did it and he was a hard core alcoholic for many years. It seems he did it totally under his own willpower. I don't know for sure because he doesn't really talk about how he did it. Maybe he prayed to the native american Great Spirit and Creator. He is more inclined to those beliefs. We definitely have indian blood.
I only ask because we have talked about it before and I don't mean to offend. I really wish I could have just walked away from it. there was no way.
I am very glad you are open to discussion and debate. I to think it is very healthy and we don't have to agree on everything. |
i will be happy to elaborate and am enjoying this discussion quite a bit and i sincerely hope all who read get something positive out of it. i respect the fact that you may not agree with whether you were powerless or not, but consider this...
you at the end of the day & only you made the choice to get sober,
wouldn't you agree? not the courts, not your kids or ex wife..correct?
so with that being said, IMHO you did have some power, because you made the decision to get help and it worked for you. IMHO if you were truly powerless than you would still be drinking..correct?
so i don't feel that because you needed help, that you were powerless,
merely you just needed some assistance and structure so you could stay on the wagon( so to speak).
so to answer your question, when i quit drinking, i quit everything..cigarettes,
pills of any kind, and alcohol. i ate healthy(which i still do) and i worked out every day( not back to that yet
..at least not every day!) i only started drinking again when i got involved with the wrong girl and that is a long and complicated story but i will elaborate if you need me to.
in my hardcore drinking days i have blacked out many times, i have 3 dui's
i have totaled many cars( thankfully i walked away from all of the accidents)
countless tickets and court dates, strained relationships and more, so to
elaborate further i never let the liquor run out because i always bought half gallons ( hee hee it would be impossible for me to drink a half gallon in a day!). and i still buy like that now, today i'm not drinking..yesterday i did.
some people considering the wrecked cars and numerous run ins with the law would say i am an alcoholic. other would say no, i walked away no problem..after 3 months i didn't miss it and had no intentions of every drinking again.a year and a half is a long time and i enjoyed it..it was different but very enjoyable. i got rid of that troublesome girl and as soon as i get into another relationship in all likelyhood i will toss the alcohol again. right now it helps me meet people of the opposite sex and helps deal with the anxiety that brings,
it's a stupid reason but it's working for me right now. i don't plan on being around any female today so..i have no need or desire to drink at the moment.
some days i will have a drink for the hell of it(if i got a lot going on)
but i'm not black out drinking like i used to, with me having BPD being alone a lot takes it's toll on me, i prefer to be in a relationship. i no longer drink every day & don't drink nearly as hard. a half gallon last me 2 weeks or more.
i don't wake up drinking, in the old days i can remember many times when the sun came up..the bottle was open.the cops and special interest groups(MADD,etc.) have taken a lot of the fun out of drinking, i don't go out
and party like i used to at all..3 dui's can have that affect on you. i mainly drink at home, have a friend or 2 over..have a few..that's it. maybe that helped me some...maybe not.
so i still believe you chose to walk away & AA helped you. it's a wonderful program, it is. not for me ,but it does work for a lot of people.when we speak
of people,places and things..these are the issues that keep people "addicted"
so to speak, people tend to think "i don't want to give up my friends" or "i love hanging out there, i don't want to give that up". " i can never do "X" again"
people inherently don't like to change...this i believe is the biggest problem.
alcohol,drugs and the like are just a symptom of a bigger problem, an inability to make proper choices for oneself IMHO.
i'm still guilty of it, many people are..the girl that gave me all that trouble, heroin addict. i had no business fooling around with her, but i did.i take full responsibility for that, i have to. i chose to walk away..and wa la magically all the problems i had with her dissapeared, did i want to walk away..at first no,
i had to hit my head a couple times to realize that she cared nothing about me or my happiness(she was ASPD also, nice choice..huh?) but we all have the capability to walk away...note i said capability..not desire. IMHO an addict does not want to quit, they are aware that it is destroying their life and do not care. do not want help and do not seek help, if you need help that's fine nothing wrong with that..but, you have to want it..reach out for it..and sure you may fall of the wagon a couple times..relapse happens.normal part of recovery but again in my humble opinion
needing help doesn't make you powerless...now i know you may not agree with me so i suppose we can agree to disagree! LOL!