Luckily I usually try to get the first one not to talk (and as useless as I find her talking to be, she does usually talk this badly), and the second is a bit more of an academic so she does not usually talk like this either. I think she tried once but it went very badly and she really couldn't defend it, so she seems to have stopped. Simply does not work for me. Mostly none of their reflective empathy sort of statements work for me. However the list does help if the first one tries to talk, I can ask if it is because she is trying to do one of the headings of the statements.