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alexandra_k said:
hey. ((((pinksoil)))) 'pathological' is not a nice word. it implicitly contains a value judgement of 'it would be better not to be pathological'. i'm sorry i used it. i don't think it is a bad thing to view your therapist as an object. i'm viewing mine as an object too.

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I'm glad that you did. Because it got me to thinking. To what extent should I view him as an object? Right now it's okay because it's working for me. But if I am still with him in a year, two years... and still viewing him as an object... I don't know if that's okay. For now he must be an object. At times, he is the object of an experiment. When there are emotions that I am afraid to relase in there, he has told me, "Why don't we just test it out?"

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i... felt like an object a lot when i was a kid. couldn't accept my thoughts / feelings / behaviours / body etc because other people didn't seem to like me much. was always trying to be different. don't feel like anybody ever delighted in or had empathy for my subjectivity.

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I never thought about being an object myself. Makes sense though. Tend to lack emotionality in situations in which it would be obviously appropriate. I've had other objects in my life besides my T.... I definitely selected men as objects before I got married-- I was only concerned for myself when I was with them, and I used them to get exactly what I needed-- then discarded them on my terms. However, I never really got what I needed.... it was what I thought I needed at the time... I guess I am comfortable having 'objects' in my life, although T is a much better one.

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but...
yeah, i think that a more (i hate to say this) 'mature' mode of inter-relating is possible. what do i mean by 'mature'? one that is more fulfilling for us. for us. and for the objects/subjects in the vicinity too. but you know what? takes some time to get there. i really do believe. because... we are still trying to find ourselves as subjects, huh.

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I agree with you. I think at times I do the object thing with my husband-- I project and throw everything of myself onto him, and at time, completely lack compassion and understanding for him.

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part of it... is about reciprocity. of course therapy is about us... but it is (eventually) about helping us find different (and more fulfilling) ways of inter-relating to others. starting with our therapists, i guess.

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I am still impressed in regards to how you said you felt excitement and understanding towards your therapist. That's an amazing step to take. I'm not sure how to do this. Especially since I don't know a thing about him. He is so object-like to me.

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i guess i'm just thinking... i'd started to think that therapy was meant to be about me remembering the stuff from when i was a kid. remembering it in an emotionally connected way. but... what seems to be happening with my doing that is that i'm getting lost there. i'm kind of using it to justify / magnify treating him like i treated past figures. though that isn't quite it. i'm kind of... getting lost in it. thats the problem. i thought that that was what it was meant to be about.

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I always though the goal of therapy was to 'get better,' reduction of symptoms, and all that. I have abandoned that theory in favor of a greater understanding of myself and the way I relate.... To experience the uniqueness of the relationship in the here and now... and hopefully at some point even when he's not right in front of me. I would like to learn object constancy.

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but maybe... it doesn't have to be that way for me. i heard the term 'non liner systems theory' and kinda went '%#@&#!, i bet thats got math in it'. but... it doesn't. its just the idea that therapy doesn't need to follow a linear course of 'first this happens and then this happens and then the next thing happens' such that if things don't happen in that nice orderly fashion then the client and / or therapist are doing something wrong. it just means... that therapy is different for different therapist / client pairs... and... there isn't a right way or a wrong way there is just an unfolding in whatever direction the process takes them in. kinda liberating for me.

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I remember when I realized this. I was spending session after session obsessing over how I wasn't accomplishing anything, nothing made sense, and I didn't know where I wanted to go with it. I was reading him a poem that I wrote about a dream that I had, so it was somewhat double-non linear, if you know what I mean. He commented on how we should make a habit of starting out the sessions with a poem or a dream, or a poem about a dream. He said it was because it was a push into free association-- because poems (at least mine) and dreams are not linear. And therapy does not have to be linear or congruent... because in reality our thoughts are not linear and our unconscious does not behave in a congruent fashion.... so why try to force it to be that way in therapy?

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seeing someone as a person is hard. what does... what does 'seeing him as a person' mean to you? that... his understanding and compassion is limited. thats freaking hard. thats something that i've been facing over these last few weeks.

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Yes. This got me. Seeing him as a person means that he would have a limited withstanding of all that I project onto him. A 'person' wouldn't be able to handle having insults hurled at them, handle my intensity and weakness at their strongest extremes, feel my pain with me, not for me... I see no limits to what he can withstand. I mean, he only has to withstand it 1 hr. per week, but still... It's extraordinary, and I (suspect) he has other clients, lol.

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what helps with that... is trying to muster understanding and compassion for him...

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To project a feeling that one would only project onto another human.... to make him human... I'm not sure how to do this. I don't know anything about him. The only feelings I hold towards him are the raw of my emotions. The idealism, the hatred, the wonder, the anger.

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(i want to be mature about this... i want that so much... not to deny my little kid feelings about this... but not to be angry with him or at least not angry with him to the point of wanting to make him feel bad).
i want to try.

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I think it is wonderful that you are trying to find the balance between the reciprocity of the relationship while still holding him as an object.