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Old Nov 16, 2014, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vital View Post
Every day there are people arriving at this site who clearly have depression and are clearly doing nothing about it except for taking drugs.
I am sure that is true for lots of people. I am not sure it is fair to say that about a lot of people who come to this site. Usually they are venting and looking for understanding and we don't really know what all they have tried and are doing.
Quote:
I see. I think you mean post #89 (long thread!). Thanks a lot for pulling out specific passages that you disagree with. The thing is, I don't see anything in there that is obviously wrong. Let me pick out the most controversal-sounding thing that I see:

"They have imposed upon Western society a faith in fake biological explanations, concocted diagnoses, and toxic drugs that do infinitely more harm than good.
We do not falsely attribute emotional suffering and personal difficulties to genetics and biochemistry."

OK. I can see that this is controversial in the sense that it contradicts the practice of many many medical professionals. On the other hand, I'm not sure he's wrong. If depression, for instance, is determined by genetics and biochemistry, how come depression is sometimes essentially cured by, say, meditation or therapy alone? I have to say that his statement seems a bit exaggerated, but I suspect that he's trying to make the point that if you think that depression is caused by genetics and, say, the serotonin level in your brain, you will think that you are helpless to improve other than by taking a drug which will increase your serotonin level.
Not all depression is determined by genetics/biology. It is involved in some percentage. If a child is physically abused, sexually abused, neglected, traumatized, etc. that has been shown to profoundly affect brain development and brain function. Genetics may not be involved but biology is. Maybe even in the case of PTSD in soldiers. I am not sure about that one. Genetics and biology may play a huge role with someone who had a great childhood, my case.

Meditation and therapy may work very easily for situational depression where biology is not involved. It may also work where biology is involved because meditation and therapy have been proven to change biology. In the case of severe abuse of a child that person might spend years in therapy and it doesn't have a large impact. There is too much damage. In a case where it is deeply embedded in genetics therapy and meditation may not have a large impact because it is too much a part of the biology. I think this is true in my case for lots of reasons. Maybe in someone else the genetic influence is not as great and they will respond better. It is never the sole reason.
For him to say genetics and biology are fake and that diagnosis are concocted is irresponsible. It is not about not taking responsibility for your treatment it is about better knowledge and understanding. It doesn't make you helpless. I think I will start a thread in "Other Mental Health Discussion" on genetics.

You don't think his theory of spellbinding is far fetched?
You might argue that case for alcohol and illicit drugs but even then I don't think it is true. I have known many addicts in all phases of addiction and in recovery. I have never met one who didn't think what they were doing was harmful. Denial takes the form of "i am not addicted" not "it isn't harmful to me". They continue to use because the benefits outweigh the risks and they are addicts. Me and my friends figured we would only live until we were thirty because what we were doing was so harmful. We did it because it was fun and at that age you don't think much about long term consequences. I have quite a bit of experience with psyche meds and I just can't see where anything he is saying is true about that theory.

You don't think his statements about universities, NIH, NIMH, the AMA, the American Psychiatric Association, all being totally corrupted by big pharma is extreme? Big Pharma is the puppet master and the whole community dances to their tune? He is disparaging a lot of people. I see a lot of good work coming out of universities. Psychiatry is a medical profession. Of course they focus on biology. A psychiatrist has to become a medical doctor first, then even more school. Psychology is a different field although they overlap and should work together.

Get rid of all psyche meds, genetics and biology play no role, fake diagnosis, total corruption. I don't go to him as a source. Not that corruption doesn't exist or that there are not real problems. There is a small percentage of corruption in everything. More so in politics, government, and big business.
Quote:
I'm not personally claiming that they do. I'm just claiming that Dr. Hyman said that, 13:44 into his talk.
You have always referenced him and linked his video but actually you have said they can cause it without linking any studies. I am not saying they don't. Hypothyroidism for sure can. Vitamin D deficiency I think there are studies on. There are studies that show fish oil helps some people.

Quote:
You may be annoyed at me at this point and I think you've tried lots of things, but I suspect that you still haven't tried the three things that I have seen at this sight that people claim made a huge difference for them: meditation, brain training and "SNAP CLUB." For me, this had a huge effect. It was much more powerful than any drug I took.
I have consistently been practicing meditation for 20 years. In that I also practice my form of neuro plasticity through visualisation and intention. Powerful concepts.

I consider practicing CBT and the twelve steps of AA brain training. It is all about decision making and right action. It is all about uncovering unconscious processes, bringing them into awareness, seeing how they effect emotions and behavior, and making changes for better outcomes. This I have also been doing for twenty years. As a matter if fact I am currently trying to help my siblings with these concepts as they have issues they have never chosen to deal with that are cropping up. None of them have any mental illness. Well my sister has moderate depression that has been well managed with Wellbutrin for many years. The med is not the only thing she does, especially the last two years she has done a ton.

SNAP CLUB I have tried to look up a few times and can't find a single thing on it. Quite honestly I would feel foolish walking through the grocery store snapping my fingers a thousand times. We make hundreds of decisions every minute. I understand your concept but I think I accomplish the same thing by other means. Would be nice to see a source for it.

There are lots of new books in brain training for lots of things. I am a little skeptical at first when a bunch of docs all write their own book on their theory or technique of it. Jeffery Schwartz is someone I trust and have read a few of his books. I may buy a depression brain training book if it isn't to gimmicky and makes sense to me. If you followed the whole discussion in that other thread I think you will find I take a very broad view as it applies to myself and treatment. Especially in a spiritual sense. Apotheosis and I had a very good discussion.
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The "paradox" is only a conflict between reality and your feeling of what reality "ought to be." -- Richard Feynman

Major Depressive Disorder
Anxiety Disorder with some paranoid delusions thrown in for fun.
Recovering Alcoholic and Addict
Possibly on low end of bi polar spectrum...trying to decide.

Male, 50

Fetzima 80mg
Lamictal 100mg
Remeron 30mg for sleep
Klonopin .5mg twice a day, cutting this back
Thanks for this!
lonely-and-sad