As I mentioned, I began visiting this forum because I wanted to understand NPD better. I have had challenges with individuals in my life that have some of the symptoms that are in the criteria, but I did not want to just label them without understanding what the label really means and "why".

Well, one of the challenges I have had to deal with in these individuals is both ADHD and Dyslexia. Well, years ago no one knew what that was and did not help the children that had that challenge either. If you read about it, what happens is that these children are typically 3 years behind when it comes to learning. It doesn't mean they are stupid by any means either, it is simply because they need more time to "learn how to learn".

Without understanding that these children can really suffer when it comes to "low self esteem" and even in their desire to learn or feel they can achieve academically. Well, this low self esteem can really affect them their entire lives, and it is not unusual for a father who struggles with it to make a lousy parent either. Actually, a lot of men turned to drinking and even became alcoholics too. That is what happened in my family history.
My grandfather, I am sure probably had it, and while he was a gifted man and did many things in his life, he did struggle and that affected him in that he became an alcoholic and he was a mean alcoholic. That affected his family too, bad things went on for my father who also struggled even though he actually had a high IQ.

When you talk about fending for yourself Underground, I actually have seen that pattern in the men in my family too. Oh, my father was/is extremely well read and knowledgable. However, he also tends to be in his own world a lot too. My older brother can be that way too which comes from handed down dysfunction, father to son.

Well, it's a lot more complex then just one's average garden variety disfunctional upbringing. I think a lot of men dropped out of school, I think they felt they were not cut out for the average educational expectations, but they did not understand "why" that all added up. My husband also has ADHD as well as Dyslexia like my older brother. My husband is far from stupid, and while he managed to complete HS, he did not complete College and he also turned to alcohol and became a binge alcoholic. My husband never knew he had ADHD either. And my therapist noticed it right away when he met him, and it was the first time I began to finally learn about it myself, something that really could have helped me so much so many, many years ago. I have to admit that my husband expresses some of the criteria and so does my father and older brother. YES, that has affected me a great deal in my life too.

Actually, my brother had a heart attack and I talked to him for the first time in a lot of years. I have been struggling a lot myself and he lives in a different part of the US. Anyway, finally he told me he has both ADHD and Dyslexia. After I talked to him I just cried because the reality really hit me that I have had to deal with these challenges in someone very close to me that created some big challenges for me pretty much "all my life". I am grieving for them and myself, it's been pretty overwhelming tbh.

Remember how you were having a hard time being patient with someone else? I was able to relate to that? Yes, thats my entire life, my entire life with my father, brother and my husband and his father, they all struggle with each other too and they all have the same challenge too. Then I met someone else that I began to struggle with, mentioned ADHD too, and same thing and that person was also curious about possible NPD, and expressed some traits too.

Well, I think it is important to understand the "entire picture" because it doesn't just boil down to someone being a "bad person with NPD". And one of the things I have noticed with those around me that have struggled is being behind in how they matured, my husband was that way for years and I really wish I had known, I certainly did try, but my T tells me that during that time the help I had needed was just not there, and it was not there for them either.

My father was hit and locked in closets, my older brother was hit and made to sit in the corner and told he was a bad boy by all the adults and even the other children and I saw it all, when I was way too young to understand any of it.

People learn to find a way to thrive "in spite of". Understanding "why" is important and learning how to finally "heal and grow" inspite of is important too, even though it can be a challenge.