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Originally Posted by hazn
OK, firstly... these are my own personal views, and I don't doubt you will have views that contradict mine. That's OK, we're different people and see things differently. This is more about trying to understand one another. I'll try respond to each paragraph in a separate paragraph.
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As I recently mentioned in another thread we were both in, I felt like I might have been projecting my former friend onto you and decided to step away from this thread to avoid becoming emotional and stupid lol. But since you reminded me and because I feel like I can do this now, okay here we go.
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Originally Posted by hazn
I've never understood this idea that somehow discussing something is a waste of time, and so we might as well not bother. How do you know that's the case if you haven't even tried? If you haven't made it clear how you feel, then how can you expect someone to understand where you're coming from? At least give the other person a chance. No one has the ability to read someone else's mind. My idea of a healthy relationship is one where people communicate their thoughts, feelings, needs, etc. If there's something that you're not happy with, then you should express that in the best way you can. If the other person genuinely cares about you, they'll do whatever they need to do in order to make things better. They will try to understand, regardless of whether it makes sense to them or not. That person might genuinely have had no idea you felt a certain way. I believe a good relationship is something two people build together. If you claim to care about someone, then you want to do that. Telling someone it's not worth spending time talking about a particular issue, to me is the same as saying "I don't care about you". Maybe it's just my brain, but I don't know how else to interpret that. How can you say that to someone you supposedly care about?
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As far as feeling like it's a waste of time, it's because I spent a very horribad childhood constantly trying to manipulate the behaviors of my parents, trying to figure out how to appease them, how to make them treat me nicely, etc. This made me very vulnerable to falling for their traps and mind games the whole time. As a defense mechanism as an adult, I do not ask people to respect me, to act like they care, to empathize me. I do not ask people for anything. I accept them at face value for exactly how they really are and do not try to change them or their behaviors. Otherwise I would be far too vulnerable to manipulation and mind games. Plus, I am of the firm belief by now that you cannot change who people really are, so it's a futile endeavor, anyway.
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Originally Posted by hazn
What is a fulfilling relationship to you? If you've never expressed your needs and feelings, how can a person cater to them? There are some people who will not express themselves at all, and then when the relationship ends they bring up all this stuff which they've never mentioned before. That doesn't make sense to me. If you're committed to making a relationship work, you have to deal with conflicts, not avoid them. And if it turns out that you can't see eye to eye with someone, that's fine... at least you both know where you stand. Perhaps the truth is that these people don't actually know what their needs are, and that's why they are so inconsistent. Maybe that's why one day they'll be in love with you, and indifferent the next.
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I think that in many cases you are spot on, as far as people not knowing what they need and want, and bringing that confusion into a relationship. It has probably been the case with me in some past relations, for sure. My idea of a fulfilling relationship is one in which my personality and the other person's personality smoothly, naturally mesh. However I also accept that my ideal relationship might too well, idealistic, and that it's more practical for me to not seek out relationships at all.
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Originally Posted by hazn
Yes, I have had people like that in my life also. I try to do what I can to be there for them when they need me, and also accept that I won't get anything back in return. But yes, if it's too much then it makes sense to detach yourself from that person. I'm learning not to let others problems become my problems.
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We may share a common vulnerability then. I like to play the role of savior, fixer and protector, because then I feel more confident that I am valued, but it tends to backfire because I'm not actually valued, and as soon as that becomes apparent, I get bitter about it with nobody to blame but myself. Not sure how similar your experiences tend to be, but I definitely relate to your last sentence. Only chances are that my issues are less to do with me being an empath (which you might be) and more to do with my struggle to gain the fabled notion of love.
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Originally Posted by hazn
That sounds right. But it's also important to realise why we attract or are attracted to people who we go on to form dysfunctional relationships with. I've come to realise why I attract a certain type of person, and so I can work on that aspect of my personality. What part do you play in all of this? For example, maybe you give people the wrong impression, send mixed messages, don't communicate your needs properly etc. It works both ways.
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Yes, probably, but it's a trade-off or perhaps a lesser of risks in my perception. I avoid a lot of vulnerability while also avoiding any form of intimacy altogether. Then I lament the whole thing secretly to myself lol.
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Originally Posted by hazn
In the case of my friend, she led me to believe that she thought I was perfect and could never do wrong (those were her words). But, no doubt I did make mistakes. I thought she was happy, but maybe she was just saying that. I can't know for sure. It was not one sided, I made more compromises than I should have in order to try make things work. I put myself out there even though I didn't feel comfortable doing so. I think she would say she did the same if asked. I know there were instances when I was acting like an idiot because I had become very insecure about the relationship. That must have been exhausting for her. But she never made a big deal out of it. Anyway, I can now see it was an unhealthy relationship, and had it continued I'd probably have ended up in a really bad way. I'm not saying she was a bad person; we just weren't right for one another.
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Thanks for clearing up some of your history with this person, it sounds like your dynamics were definitely different from the dynamics I had with my own former friend.