Wow a lot of posts, I will respond to the ones I don't find boring.
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Originally Posted by here today
I believe that my late father met the criteria for NPD and that it was largely environmentally caused. He had a difficult childhood but he DID love – himself, mostly.
All of us have a nature that may do well in a positive environment, not so well in a poor one, and some people are resilient no matter what the situation.
There’s an article on the main PC page about the differences between psychopaths and sociopaths which addresses nature/nurture in people with anti-social personality disorder.
Differences Between a Psychopath vs Sociopath | World of Psychology
To quote just one sentence: “Psychology researchers generally believe that psychopaths tends to be born — it’s likely a genetic predisposition — while sociopaths tend to be made by their environment.”
James Fallon does not have antisocial personality disorder. I’ve seen him in a video saying that he is narcissistic so I’ll take his word on that. But if some people with antisocial personality are made, not born, seems likely that the same would apply to people with NPD.
So far as I know, though, there's not a clear difference in terms for people with NPD who may have psychopathic brains and those who may not.
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I don't like being called a sociopath for several reasons, and that article summed up exactly why. I make a distinction between the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" also. I know two sociopaths that are good friends of mine(though my definition of what a friend is, I am sure it is vastly different than the norm), they are very different than I am though we do all have some similar traits such as a blatant disregard for rules although I am a law abiding citizen. I engage in many antisocial antics, I just don't do anything illegal.
If you're going to start using words like that with me then just call me a psychopath, it's far more accurate. I am a product of nature. My environment was awful growing up, but as I've said in other posts around here the way I responded to my environment was highly atypical... Nothing "normal" about how I reacted to it all, I learned that as an adult. I saw the people who abused me as competition, I saw it all as a huge game... and yes, I won.
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Originally Posted by marmaduke
IMO narcissists are likely born that way wired differently (a problem with the Amygdala?)
So I agree with Fallon.
My mother was NPD born that way. In her case she had not been abused as a child.
I have read loads, but in my experience PDs tend to be inherited.
Fallon is a psychopath all psychopaths are narcissists.
Antisocials I believe are likely made damaged by neglect and abuse lashing out at society.
You say your father did love, mostly himself.
Narcissists do love themselves, they usually also feel plenty of emotion buckets of that, loving attention and drama. But they do not feel empathy. It's all about them.
There are many variables so no absolutes.
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The man who crippled me was a malignant narcissist, sometimes reading about your mother I am reminded of him. He was born that way, from all that I could tell.
Calling me a psychopath is fair, and yes as I've said all psychopaths are narcissists but not all narcissists are psychopaths. However, while I do qualify technically for an ASPD diagnosis I do not do anything illegal these days though I was in and out of trouble as a child, teen, and young adult.
My mother's husband is a "fragile" narcissist, again born that way he has four other siblings that were also abused terribly and they're all neurotic and frankly ****ed up people. My mother's husband is happy as a clam, though his "woe is me" rants are... Interesting...
Narcissists feel plenty, the man who crippled me was most definitely a Narcissist but his emotions were clearly highly tempestuous. I think that his emotionality was ironically what made him so dangerous and why I'll be lucky if I can walk at all 20 years down the road... He was cruel, and highly explosive in the emotions department.
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Originally Posted by marmaduke
The PD is genetic. Fallon is still a psychopath. Most psychopaths are not in prison.
All his family knew he was 'different' and he got into lots of trouble as a teen.
His excellent family life saved him from prison. He has lived the life of a psychopath.
I reckon Trump and sons are psychopaths. Disregard for others, ruthless, materialistic, make their own rules, greedy, trophy hunting muderers. No empathy going on there.
I have never said eviroment was not a factor.
Nature loads the gun, nuture pulls the trigger.
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I qualify as a psychopath according to the PCL-R and other such tests designed to identify psychopathic individuals. However, like most functional psychopaths as I call us, I am obviously not in prison nor have I ever been in prison.
I was always seen as "different", from the time I was a very young girl. No matter where I was people noticed I was different, even if they couldn't recognize exactly what the differences were. And I've always thought of myself as different.
I just didn't know what it meant to be a psychopath, like many, I had misconceptions about what that word meant and I thought that meant some serial killer on death row... I didn't know much about psychopathy until adulthood, and even though I have scored very high on any test I've been given(quite a few) that measures psychopathic traits I laughed it all off until repeated disasters in my personal life forced me to address the issue.
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Originally Posted by marmaduke
Atypical.
Do you think a narcissist is capable of love?
And do you think therapy can help or 'cure' a pathological (not learnt traits) narcissist?
Has therapy helped you?
I know therapy would have done nothing for my mother.
NPD was her, just like her blue eyes or brown hair. A chat was gonna change none of those things.
My narcissistic possibly psychopathic sister mothers golden child (her mini me) used to tell me she 'felt nothing' that even if her daughters were out late she never worried. It puzzled her that apparently other people did worry.
We don't have any contact now she really is evil.
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I think on some level, yes a narcissist is capable of love... but I think that it is a selfish love, if a narcissist loves someone it tends to be because the narcissist sees that person as an extension of themselves.
Interesting question about if a pathological narcissist can benefit from therapy... I don't think born that way narcissists will benefit at all from therapy. All a born that way narcissist tends to do is go to therapy to appease their family and then argue with the therapist all day and insist there's nothing wrong with them and it's everyone else. I would know, my mother's husband did this and ranted about it frequently when he was in therapy.
As far as therapy helping me, it depends on what you call help. Like many have said about psychopaths, therapy has taught me how to be even more manipulative and so on. However, I have learned in therapy that it is okay to drop the mask around some, and I've also focused on learning practical things to do that keep my boredom at bay so I don't do anything too reckless. My therapist knows I cannot be altered as I was born this way and thankfully she's smart enough to be able to work with that, and she and I just focus on how to modify behaviors that can cause me to get into trouble in my interpersonal life. I was sick of certain patterns in my interpersonal life, so I've done the work to turn that around for myself.
Of course, none of this is at all altruistic. Lol. And I will fully admit that I like playing with my therapist sometimes because I find it entertaining and a therapist's office is a good way to learn more tricks on how to manipulate people to get what I want.
Unlike a narcissist I do not care if I am admired or hated, and I can be alone for weeks and not feel one pang of "loneliness"(whatever that is). I do not require attention nor do I particularly want it unless it's a part of my game for a very specific purpose... what I want is power and control over people and I have zero issues admitting that, again unlike a narcissist who will never admit that they're engaging in "bad" behavior.