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Old Feb 21, 2016, 05:01 PM
BudFox BudFox is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Feb 2015
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicalprince View Post
I disagree that the level of harm echoes early attachment relationships. When a mother rejects an infant's needs, this is a pressing survival concern. When a therapist rejects a client, all this objectively means is that they will need to find another therapist if they want to continue treatment.

It is adaptive for an infant to suffer greatly from parental abandonment, it is not adaptive for an adult to suffer greatly from termination of a service, because the pain is disproportionate to the actual loss. A reasonable adult reaction may be to grieve, but not to suffer greatly or become desperate and suicidal because therapy ended. In fact, a healthy adult may realize that the therapy, with the way it existed, was not productive, and be glad they learned something about themselves and others in the process.

I don't think one can say that the failure of a T is proportionate to the harm the client experiences, because this is not true, just like the idealness and perfectness of a T is not proportionate to what the client experiences in the grips of transference. The therapy provides only minimal contact, minimal relational capacity and minimal life involvement. It is narrative that embellishes the meaning of that involvement. Narrative can even be mutual between T and client, that still does not make it proportional to the reality.

The intensity of the feelings is not created by actual events that happened in the therapy (note, the level of intensity of the feelings is not created by those events, I'm not saying there are not real actions that bring up those feelings.) But the intensity, that is created by a subjective interpretation of those events' meaning, which then brings up old feelings.

Therapy cannot create new, more intense feelings than the old feelings that one has already adapted some strategy to cope with, because dependencies of the same magnitude do not actually exist in therapy, an adult is objectively not as helpless or powerless as a child, and the therapist never actually becomes the parent, takes on the responsibilities of, or acts in nearly the full capacity of a parent. The original abandonment is where the intensity comes from, so the feelings are a re-experiencing of the original abandonment, not an accurate response to termination of services with a single provider. Those feelings flood back into consciousness because as an adult, they can be processed and dealt with in more adaptive ways, which will then free the individual from their subconscious influence.

If the feelings legitimately could not be coped with, then they would be dissociated away again, like they were in the first place, because that coping mechanism was already adapted long ago to deal with those feelings. However, if the client continues to perceive that they have really experienced a loss as great as a mother abandoning her child, and that they are powerless, and the only recourse is for the "mother" to return and make it better, then the feelings will persist.

I do think that, for a therapist to prolong a therapy in which the client is clearly not seeking therapeutic goals, and the T does not know how to help the client seek those goals, that is unproductive, and is proof that the therapist is not competent enough to reliably provide the duties of a therapist to the client. But a T who is not competent enough to treat a specific client is also not competent enough to repair the situation, and in that case a referral is actually a responsible thing to do.

I know my T felt just as powerless as me when she referred me, and that was why she referred me, and at the time, it did not occur to me that it was better this way, or that she was actually doing the right thing for me, because beyond that point, she would have been unstable and ended up hurting me worse. I only wanted her to take me back because I was taking all the responsibility for our therapy anyway, and all the responsibility for its failings, and her own reactions. Well, with the way she felt, I wasn't going to be able to stop doing that, so it would not have gotten better. Even in the reverse situation, if the client is taking none of the responsibility for the therapy outcome, and putting all the responsibility on the T, there is nothing that T can do because nothing will be good enough, because the client is holding the T accountable for the contributions of both the T and client.
MP, we had some productive and interesting dialogue not long ago. I appreciated it. So I say this with respect… your last couple posts are demeaning and patronizing, as much as any I have seen here, and I imagine anyone harmed in therapy would feel that. Why? Because they are written in such a way as to suggest thoughtfulness and understanding but contain all sorts of veiled insults and presumptions. There is a subtext that seems to say -- here is how I overcame my difficult therapy, now pay attention as I explain how you can do the same. If someone posted in this manner, but with a message that was critical of therapy, there would be outrage.

You seem to have undergone some transformation in your view of your own therapy, which is great. But to preach in such a drawn out and moralizing way about what you consider the "proper" way to view the experience of harmful therapy is just not cool.

Suggestions that therapy relationships aren't that different than others and are just a "s**t happens" sort of reality seems really odd to me. Therapy should at least aim for "first do no harm". If it fails there with regularity, it is not legit. People are paying large sums of money, unlike in social relationships. If we hold therapy to no higher standard than social relationships, I cant imagine why it should exist. And the sort of harm inflicted by bad therapy has a uniquely perverse, disturbing character.

You are equivocating and rationalizing about an experience that, for many, is emotional and visceral and psychological. If therapy experiences could be sorted out through intellectualizing and rationalizing, you wouldn't have people losing their minds and feeling lingering harm for years. Trying to make sense of destructive therapy by considering it objectively is like trying to soothe a crying baby by giving it book to read about psych theory. I have the sorts of awareness and self understanding that you are promoting, but I still am suffering greatly. Therapy conditions us to take a bullet for the process and see that our suffering is self-created and we just need to try again, and again, cuz the process is beyond reproach. My suffering is in part self-created, but therapy itself also inflicted suffering that is absolute and not just relative. Anyone who suggests otherwise is playing a dangerous and invalidating game. It's what most of the other T's that I tried did. It was cowardly and perverse.

As for therapy-childhood links, the entire biz speaks in a language that makes plain the connections between therapy dyads and mother-infant dyads -- regression, transference, attachment, dependence, etc. There are whole therapy approaches that even attempt various sorts of "re-parenting".

Last edited by BudFox; Feb 21, 2016 at 05:16 PM.
Thanks for this!
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