Sounds to me that we have Freethinker with a capital F versus freethinker without the capital. One being a noun, one being a verb. One being itself an 'organized view' and the other a definition of a way of thinking. Free to think what we want.... what we come to believe. Least that's how the comments here are unfolding topic for me.

By your definition Maven I guess I am 'religious' because I do believe in the spirit world. One set in motion by the Great Spirit. The Creator of all that is extrodinary. The one power that started the 'Big Bang' or created the 'Garden of Eden' or gave Crow the power to generate life.... whatever version of creation one wishes to paint or has been taught to see. Any story of creation is founded in one's own cultural perspective. Be that Anglo, Asian, or like me Aboriginal/ Native North American... we bring our ancestry, our traditional teachings and understandings into the mix of any kind of 'religious thought'.

I would argue that as a Freethinker with a capital F one is equally 'religious'. Freethinking is a different doctrine but it is a doctrine just the same from what you have shared here. (Thanks for the links by the way.... I've only read the discriptions but will check out the sites when I have more time.)

As for Sagen.... I have extraordinary evidence and so did he.... he just choose not to process the information because he used the wrong tools. He lived in a world made up of only matter. No spirit so he only say half the story. I'm alive.... that's extraordinary itself given the number of times I've tried to end it..... and I see other miracles happen everyday. The miracles of nature healing herself. Of rivers returning to life for no 'apparent reason' or in 'impossible timelines' but I know it is because of the ceremonies my Elders performed on the banks of the river. I've seen the colours return to the rings of Spirit Lake after decades without. The colours returned when our Old People were allowed back on the land so that they could offered prayers and perform ceremonies to call upon the spirit world to restore the lake. I've seen healings that defy logic. I experience answered prayers and I diologue with the spirit world. I have been rescued by angels or spirit helpers on more than one occassion. I have all the evidence I or anyone would every need that there is a spirit world operating parallel, in sync and in collaboration with life on earth, from the earth.

I love these kinds of discussions..... they always seem to increase my faith and solidify my understanding. Like so much in life I often take for granted my faith and spiritual walk through life. Life without Spirit is like always living with half the glass empty. My cup overflows.

I suppose there is a part of me that always wonders if my beliefs are founded on reality or just another coping skill I've learned over the years. I mean, before my faith and my spiritual life was awakened I was pretty empty. When I opened myself up to the teachings of the holy books, to the teachings of my ancestors and I began to offer prayers and open up my spirit to connect to the Great Spirit things started to click into place for me. Empty holes in my head and in my heart were filled. Life's other dimensions were revealed to me and made accessable to me through faith and understanding. Acceptance and evidence.

It may all be a hoax or a bad joke or mass hypnosis or an effective coping mechanism... or it may be real... evidence suggests it is real more than it can prove it isn't. But then.... I always have enjoyed the social sciences far more than the physical sciences. Just like I have 100% peace when I am filled with spiritual thought while I struggle at 50% to operate from only my carnal knowledge.

Peace be with you all.....