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Old May 12, 2016, 11:54 AM
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s4ndm4n2006 s4ndm4n2006 is offline
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Member Since: Jul 2014
Location: limbo
Posts: 2,052
Quote:
Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post
I am confused on your concept of judgement. If someone is mistreating or using you, I don't see how and why you would refer to acknowledging that fact as judgement.

By this logic the only way is to live is to be submissive and accepting bad treatment as anything other than that could be viewed as judgement. I am
not sure what you mean by what you say about others is a reflection of you.

Sure if you go around gossiping about random people it's bad but acknowledging the fact that someone is doing mean things isn't reflection of you whatsoever.

You have kids. Would you teach them that accepting bad treatment is a good thing because it's the right way to live?

Do you think you deserve bad treatment or you never observe truly nice relationship? You don't need to judge but where is the enjoyment in being treated badly?

It seems that you spend several posts defending bad behavior and pretty much saying it is the only way to live. I just really disagree with it. Have you not met nice women who would treat you well?

You mentioned peace but one can have peace in a good relationship. Do you believe you need to be treated badly in order to be peaceful and content ? Why?

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On the topic of judgment I feel compelled to say something that many times I believe throws people off. Judgment is something of a responsibility of ours as people in this world and the anti-judgment ideal while originating from good reason, is sometimes taken too far. What do I mean?

In the OP's case, let's look at that from the perspective I speak. I don't think I disagree with what Divine is saying but for clarity's sake here is how I view what I call the responsibility of judgment and how I view what some people with an aversion to judgment altogether are going wrong.

Judgment of a person's value, character and worth is wrong. Judging someone based on whether or not they are worthy of something from you or others is not what we should do. I should not look at a person and judge them as bad or good, this that or the other thing with regards to them as a person at all. But, we should and I feel are responsible for judging behaviors, how they act and what they do. Let me clarify in the OP's case.

What I think Zen is saying is that he doesn't want to judge her and in his heart I believe it really is about her character and not judging her as a person, there is nothing wrong in that but I feel that it is just carried too far when a person refuses to look at a behavior under the idea that ANY JUDGMENT would be "judging the person" which is entirely not true.

@Zen: what divine and I think others are saying is that when you are being treated badly you should not allow this and the only way you can be able to understand it is by separating her behaviors from her as a person. Whether or not she is a good person, a person of value, etc, we do, unfortunately, all have bad behaviors and act badly toward others at times. of course many, if not most of us here try not to but let's face it, we are all less than perfect creatures right? When I look at a person and judge what they are doing, it does not exclude me from thinking of the person as being valuable and in fact, in many ways it places more value on them if you're able to actually make a judgment call on their behavior and do something about it whether for yourself or for them. Because you cannot value a person where you opt out of doing anything to help them or be their friend, etc.

Getting back to the idea that you want to help her, the truth is by taking the position that any judgment of her actions is judging her, is enabling her rather than helping her. Sometimes being able to tell someone that they are wrong in what they are doing and how they are acting toward us is the most loving thing we can do because frankly, for me, if I am making stupid mistakes in any way and someone sees it, I'd rather they not just remain silent on it, in spite of the fact that it will sting at first, it's usually something that in the end helps me move forward.

If you want to help her stand up for yourself or the changes that she needs to make will not happen. Granted, we cannot change another person but there is (as trippin stated) no provocation to change if you do not make a stand for yourself. I won't make a judgment of whether she is right for you but I will agree with others in that she is treating you badly and the "opting out" of judging this behavior is again, enabling her to continue and stunting her growth in the area of relationships.

Please understand, I know where your heart is, and it's not a bad place but I hope this gives some clarity on judgment itself and helps you. I speak from a place where I have considered and gone through confusion about it for a long time before coming to this place of clarity for myself.
Thanks for this!
Trippin2.0, Yours_Truly