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Old May 12, 2016, 01:42 PM
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zeninfinity zeninfinity is offline
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Member Since: May 2016
Location: Sebastopol
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006 View Post
On the topic of judgment I feel compelled to say something that many times I believe throws people off. Judgment is something of a responsibility of ours as people in this world and the anti-judgment ideal while originating from good reason, is sometimes taken too far. What do I mean?

In the OP's case, let's look at that from the perspective I speak. I don't think I disagree with what Divine is saying but for clarity's sake here is how I view what I call the responsibility of judgment and how I view what some people with an aversion to judgment altogether are going wrong.

Judgment of a person's value, character and worth is wrong. Judging someone based on whether or not they are worthy of something from you or others is not what we should do. I should not look at a person and judge them as bad or good, this that or the other thing with regards to them as a person at all. But, we should and I feel are responsible for judging behaviors, how they act and what they do. Let me clarify in the OP's case.

What I think Zen is saying is that he doesn't want to judge her and in his heart I believe it really is about her character and not judging her as a person, there is nothing wrong in that but I feel that it is just carried too far when a person refuses to look at a behavior under the idea that ANY JUDGMENT would be "judging the person" which is entirely not true.

@Zen: what divine and I think others are saying is that when you are being treated badly you should not allow this and the only way you can be able to understand it is by separating her behaviors from her as a person. Whether or not she is a good person, a person of value, etc, we do, unfortunately, all have bad behaviors and act badly toward others at times. of course many, if not most of us here try not to but let's face it, we are all less than perfect creatures right? When I look at a person and judge what they are doing, it does not exclude me from thinking of the person as being valuable and in fact, in many ways it places more value on them if you're able to actually make a judgment call on their behavior and do something about it whether for yourself or for them. Because you cannot value a person where you opt out of doing anything to help them or be their friend, etc.

Getting back to the idea that you want to help her, the truth is by taking the position that any judgment of her actions is judging her, is enabling her rather than helping her. Sometimes being able to tell someone that they are wrong in what they are doing and how they are acting toward us is the most loving thing we can do because frankly, for me, if I am making stupid mistakes in any way and someone sees it, I'd rather they not just remain silent on it, in spite of the fact that it will sting at first, it's usually something that in the end helps me move forward.

If you want to help her stand up for yourself or the changes that she needs to make will not happen. Granted, we cannot change another person but there is (as trippin stated) no provocation to change if you do not make a stand for yourself. I won't make a judgment of whether she is right for you but I will agree with others in that she is treating you badly and the "opting out" of judging this behavior is again, enabling her to continue and stunting her growth in the area of relationships.

Please understand, I know where your heart is, and it's not a bad place but I hope this gives some clarity on judgment itself and helps you. I speak from a place where I have considered and gone through confusion about it for a long time before coming to this place of clarity for myself.
"but I feel that it is just carried too far when a person refuses to look at a behavior under the idea that ANY JUDGMENT would be "judging the person" which is entirely not true."

I am not devoid of judgement. Of course I still judge, if my left brain is engaged, I am judging. For instance, when I am present and can see she is being naughty and trying to make me jealous. "Trying to make me jealous" is a judgement. I guess it's just not choosing to act on it in a way that will cause more dissonance and resistance. Instead i let go of it, surrender to it and let me tell you. I feel free!!! It's like I am transcending my fears by choosing compassion, understanding and love. Does that make sense?

"what divine and I think others are saying is that when you are being treated badly you should not allow this and the only way you can be able to understand it is by separating her behaviors from her as a person."

Agree. I feel I have a decent understanding of it. Maybe I am lost in the fog? She suffers and then acts "badly." It's my choice to suffer along with her and engage in the usual battle that would ensue. I agree, with a more emotionally mature person there might be a way to process this verbally and therefore heal. But this is not the case. She can't hear criticism.

I think what I am experiencing is acceptance. I accept her for the way she is. Will I continue to just be ok with her "bad behavior?" I don't know? But for now, in this moment. I feel very good about us. I feel like we are transcending old stories and healing. And sure, there is some pain involved. I personally think we could grow without pain. But we are not there yet and may never be. The future is uncertain. I accept this.

"If you want to help her stand up for yourself or the changes that she needs to make will not happen. Granted, we cannot change another person but there is (as trippin stated) no provocation to change if you do not make a stand for yourself. I won't make a judgment of whether she is right for you but I will agree with others in that she is treating you badly and the "opting out" of judging this behavior is again, enabling her to continue and stunting her growth in the area of relationships."

I did stand up for myself. I walked out on her, abandoned her. I am embarrassed about my behavior. And moreover the not so great part of me came out. And let's face it. It was ugly and all based in fear. But indeed, it got her attention. I not sure if talking about it would have worked. So yes, at this point and unhealthy way to communicate dissatisfaction. No doubt, communication is a big challenge.

Enabling, point taken. But again, I feel I approach this in a different way than the usual way. But this is not that. Little miracles have already occurred. It amazes me, how I have grown from all this, just by taking a different perspective.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write. It really means a lot to me. I appreciate your perspective, you've brought many things to light.