Quote:
Originally Posted by pirilin
Hell, if you want to go back that far, Abe Lincoln had bipolar too.
My question is: do the people of England know what they voted for?.
I'm afraid that will happen here too. If we make the grave mistake of electing ................. as President of the United States.
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Yes, it's quite obvious what the effects have been for many in all European countries of the EU. England (not Schotland, Northern Island or Wales) have in quite a large majority voted for leaving the EU.
It's quite obvious there's pressure on all public services and that (even just) the fear of pressure on wages and that companies may move to another country without much problems is enough to be able to lower wages.
More spending on public services would increase pressure.
It's clear that many that actually experience the problems understand that part and it's not some xenophobia.
Much is blamed on the EU, but that's justified.
As Bill Clinton said: "It's the economy, stupid!"
But sovereignty, democracy, has been very important for many. Especially older voters. Probably most voted to leave for that reason.
It's much a matter of pride. The oldest democracy which has ruled much of the world for centuries wants to remain sovereign. Germany decides things for the EU effectively, and many, in all European countries, don't trust Germany.
I don't trust Germany (the government and banks).
But the campaign of the Leave side, the official campaign, was very good and fair. Good arguments. Little fear-mongering. That has everything to do with Nigel Farage, a very charismatic right-wing party leader, who did/does try to win by inducing fear.
Farage made it difficult for many to campaign for Leave without looking xenophobic or racist. Many more voted Remain because they thought it was all about xenophobia.
The government was divided. The prime minister really tried to fear people into staying. It was all about the bad that would happen and not about the good that is happening.
That made it more obvious that it wasn't really in the interest of people to stay in the EU. It was all about the economy, but not about the situation people are in, because of or despite of the economy.
One day before the referendum, just to give an example of how little idea the Remain camp had about what many people find important, these issues, Sir John Major, Conservative prime minister after Maggie Thatcher, said in a speech that he didn't think that (more) people would migrate to the UK because the minimum wage is so low. The government of the current prime minister, standing next to him and staring in admiration of this Statesman, had decided on the low minimum wage.
Fear is enough. But not always.
It was quite obvious that he had to go.
Boris Johnson would have been the new PM anyway, most probably. He is far more charismatic than say, Obama (was).
Labour decided to back the Remain side, while it's leader, very left-wing, was elected as leader by those that voted Leave, and he wanted to leave as well. It's just the rest of the parliamentary party members that wanted to remain. They knew better than their constituents, I guess.
If he had acted on principle, Leave would probably have defeated Remain by many more votes. Glasgow was a good indicator of the disillusioned and confused or conflicted Labout vote, probably. Fewer actually voted than expected. Remain won in Glasgow, like in all/most of Schotland.
There was/is really lots of debate. So yes, people knew.
The current negative effects on the equity markets and GBP were expected. People were reminded every day that would happen and it's obvious.
But nobody really expected that it would succeed when they went to bed on the 23rd.
I didn't sleep and it was spectacular. I just wish I had bet money on Leave.