I think awkwardly put it very well. Today on dr phil they had a mother daughter combo, and early on in the show dr phil asked the daughter what she wanted from the mother. The daughter pretty clearly said, for her to love me, to know she loves me. The rest of the hour, the mother was argumentative as heck.

At the end of the show, dr phil goes, well daughter, thats a reasonable thing to want, but it just might not be in your life plan that you get that. He goes, like you might want me to give you your car keys, but i dont have your car keys. I cant give you what i dont have. Your mother cant give you what she doesnt have.

That to me corresponds to the sinking in quicksand.

I dont understand why you repeated the question, or explained yourself, or whatever, in post #4. I dont have as low an opinion of ts as you do, at least as regards my current one, so i do value having a connection and dont regard him as a stranger. I wouldnt feel good about myself constantly hanging around a person i felt so negatively about - i already gave at home and the office, as the old joke goes.