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Originally Posted by junkDNA
could you possibly just be dissociating when you walk in there?
i did start talking to him about that experience... it took a long time. i just fessed up to what was going on with me
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I could be dissociating. I go in there and my mind get's blank, as if I had no thoughts or feelings.
I understand that the most constructive thing to do would be to talk about that experience. I would give the suggestion too. But when in that situation I can't because talking about this experience would already assume a different state of mind. Talking about it feels like betraying myself and giving in to him.
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Originally Posted by atisketatasket
Easy solution: stop going. He can't be pleased for you, he can't get any satisfaction out of it, he can't get anything good out of it if you are not his client. You would win, by not playing the game.
Question is, is that what you really want?
Do you have this reaction to all therapists or just him?
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Yeah, I'm playing with this thought of not going all the time but it doesn't give me the feeling of winning. I mean he is potentially offering me many good things and then I couldn't have any of them. I do regularly tell him though that I might not come back after the summer break and when he tells me that I have to tell it to him at least few weeks earlier so we could process the ending then I say that "no, I don't have to tell you anything in advance". Basically, I understand that I want him to suffer. I want the work with me to be hard for him. I want it to have a real effect on him. I want to see what does he do when I make it super hard for him - does he tolerate it with me or does he eventually give up and abandon me?
I've had two therapists. In a milder form the same thing happened with the other therapist too but he was somehow more skilful to not let it escalate. Or maybe this other T held me more tightly because he knew our time would be limited and if I had been his long-term patient he would have let this whole process unroll more? Who knows.
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Originally Posted by kecanoe
I have sessions like this, although I haven't had the long stretch that you describe. But I do sometimes feel shut down/frightened/needy/angry/unsafe/defensive/desperate.
I don't know if you are even able to talk to t about it, but here are some things that can break the cycle for me.
T telling me a story. Me thinking about what color I feel and saying the color out loud. Holding a stuffed animal. Coloring how I feel (usually just a scribbled bunch of colors). Doing grounding exercises (even when I don't feel a need to be grounded, I interpret this as t caring how I feel and I can hear ts voice sounding safe). Imagining sitting by t (I like to think about sitting on the floor and kind of leaning on t's legs while he sits in his chair).
Also sometimes it helps me to say a single word, such as a feeling. I tell myself that its not going to get any easier. sometimes just saying that I feel like fighting is helpful.
Or perhaps try writing things down when you are not in session and then handing it to him. I have often shared journal stuff that I don't think I can say out loud. He reads my journal out loud so I can see his responses, and sometimes he responds while reading.
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Thanks for suggestions but I don't think I can do those things, at least not yet. There are sessions when things are different and we are even able to talk about some things but all my state of minds are quite separate. If I am in one state of mind then this is all that is and I feel no connections to other state of minds.
Sometimes I am in a sort of baby state of mind, where I am able to connect emotionally but have no words. Then my T just talks to me and I'm listening, it doesn't matter then what he talks, I just listen the sound of his voice but I have no words to say anything back.
The problem with writing is that I write in one state of mind and when I go into my session then I'm probably in a different state of mind. Thus, there is no way I would tolerate reading the stuff I've written because I can't connect to feeling and thinking that way anymore.
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Originally Posted by Elio
For me it does become a conscious choice to share. I make the decision of the who, what, where, when I am going to share something and then I do stuff that makes it so I can't really back out... like emailing it right before session, or as in now, I write it in my journal and it gets handed over to T.
I've also started allowing different things to happen in session that are just experiences... so as my T is fond of saying, the hour is mine to do with as I wish, how do I want to spend the time. Granted there are limits; however, there are less than what I would have initially thought and feared. So, maybe doing other things, other forms of communication would be helpful, if you want help.
- physical movement while talking... walks, playing games, passing a ball back and forth between your hands or between you and T.
- sharing things that have meaning to you, music, art, poems, books
- changing how you sit in the room... sitting, laying, on the floor, standing, opposite chairs
- communicate through writing your thoughts while in session rather than verbally or perhaps as other suggested through drawing
One thing that has also worked for me is to say those random single words that do come through regardless of what they are or how the fit. For example, I might be telling T about something that happened and I start to shut down, start to hit the emotional stuff and not just the facts of the story. Either my head goes blank or so much is yelling in there that I don't want to say... then I'll say something like quicksand or ladder - it's really abstract.
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Thanks for your experiences, it all makes sense to me. For the first two years I actually went in every day with a plan to do such things - to come out with a realisation that I'm not able to. Then I abandoned this idea that I should be able to share when it feels impossible. Now I go in without any clue or expectation which state of mind I end up being or what is going to happen.
Actually, I have been thinking that maybe what is happening is a form of free association, a strange form but still.
The problem with sharing is that I have been very inwardly oriented most of my life, I don't have the need to share, I can live without it. So when I go to my session, I don't feel the wish to share. I'm not sure I gain anything from sharing, while my T would get a feeling of being an accomplished T. Sure, it's only the half-truth because obviously I have parts that want to share. But how to access them through these hostile states and what do they want to share?
I don't really need the feel to share anything that happens in my adult life. I am fully functional, successful in my job, I have a good relationship with my H (although it lacks physical and emotional intimacy) but we connect very well on intellectual and spiritual level. I share the things from my real adult life with my H and I don't feel any need to discuss those things with my T. So, what is it that I could want to share with my T in those various child states?
You suggest books, poems, music, art and such things. As a thought it makes sense but these are parts of my adult life and I feel that it's none of his business what I like. And my child parts don't really care about such things.
I don't know, I have somehow very cleverly separated myself up and defined in very strict terms what can be related to therapy and what not. So cleverly that I have really hard time untying this knot
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Originally Posted by ruh roh
My first reaction when I read your post was...man, this sounds just like my family of origin: nothing you have to say is important, you are not important, no one cares about you. So basically, my take is that you are really angry, to the point of being emotionally abusive toward yourself. There is no win here for anyone, especially not you, but I'm guessing you know that and that's why you're sharing this.
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Yep, it does come from my FOO. I was basically invisible there. I actually still feel invisible most of the time. Only when I do something or when I accomplish something I become visible but even then it is not me but the thing I did or achieved. I guess I still can't comprehend and experience that my T is there for me and not for feeling accomplished as a therapist. I don't think I am able to truly experience that he sees me. I think I believe that I could tell him any BS or put on any mask and he wouldn't be able to make any difference because I am inherently invisible.
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Originally Posted by unaluna
Dont keep this treasure to yourself. You shared it with us. Yes, he is in your transference, but make him your partner in this endeavor as you have made us.  im so excited for you  |
You know, I think we have actually talked about it. I don't think that anything I've written here is any kind of secret in my therapy. I believe that in one or the other form it all has been talked about at some point. Apparently it's not enough. Just talking about things doesn't shift things in me. And I think I know why. It is because my emotions and thoughts are very separate.
When I talk I basically don't feel, everything goes through intellect. I can leave an impression of being empathetic but I basically emulate it with thinking. You can't get to the true empathy this way (which is something I have no experiences with) but you can get surprisingly far with such an emulation.
So, in my therapy, when I am talking, then it is highly likely that I'm cut off from my feelings. However, when I feel then everything is so messy inside me and I can't talk. Then the feelings come out in actions because this is the only way I can "talk" about them.
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Originally Posted by ~Tsunami
One thought I have is that this part of you is protecting you, not allowing you to get close to this therapist (authority figure?) .
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Yes, this is correct. Unfortunately I have no idea how to demonstrate to this part that it is safe being close to him. I think it can only happen through experience but the struggle is how to get that experience when this part tries to avoid it at all cost.
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Originally Posted by Skies
Aren't you fighting yourself though?
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Of course I am
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Originally Posted by here today
Yes, it does sound like good work, and why not do it here if this feels like a better place to do it? PC works better for me and I no longer even feel one-down here more than half the time!! T's weren't safe for me to do anger work with, maybe your current T isn't either? Took FOREVER for me realize that though, that it was them, not me. |
I'm glad talking your stuff through here has worked for you. I think for me these things are complementary. PC certainly doesn't replace the T because I write here in a very different state of mind than I go to T and the work needs to be done in those child states that I'm in therapy. Here I can talk about stuff intellectually and this is something I'm already good at. Although it is good to experience that people are willing to think about my stuff and say something about it. I guess this experience is also very important to me because it contradicts my feeling of being invisible.
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Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours
This really stood out for me. Likely because when I was trying to figure stuff out with my former T, I got some incredibly wise advice on how an emotional / felt sense of trust / comfort with a T isn't something that you can think your way to. It's either just there or not there.
That's not to say that it's there entirely and in absolute terms from the very first session onwards but I've found that without at least some sense of it -- at least to the extent of being able to believe for oneself that there may come a time when I can trust this person with X thing -- it's pretty much impossible to do any in-depth therapy.
From your description, it sounds like there's a lot of regression but the T doesn't seem to be able to break through -- from a purely pragmatic perspective, I'd say four years is a heckuva long time for a T to not be able to make any inroads. Even if it's not so much a lack of skill, it sounds like the T may have run out of ideas?
I can imagine the depth of the attachment to this T but perhaps it's time to at least consider looking for a new T?
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As I wrote, I've played with this thought many times but haven't come to the conclusion that it would be the right thing to do. First of all because I have no illusions that in general therapy with anyone could be easy with me, secondly there are not that my options that satisfy my criteria for a therapist and I can't be sure that the options there are would be any better than my current T because realistically he is a very good T.
I also realise from a state of having ever trusted anyone to reach a state where you really feel the trust to someone can realistically take a lot of time. I have no previous experiences (from childhood) to build on, this is all new stuff that has to emerge somehow.
So, yeah, I believe that the topic of changing T-s will come up again and again, until I do it because I become convinced that this is what I should do or the experience of trust will emerge somehow.