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Originally Posted by SoulSurvivor
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The folks I was with who ended up being the most severe and malignant narcissists were often covert and very hard to identify, especially for folks without prior experience. They can wear many masks and they can have tricks up their sleeves that you might never have imagined. Many stories and articles are written about people who were married to a narcissist or have narcissistic family members or friends that they didn't come to understand for years, sometimes decades. Some folks I know who are on the spectrum are nothing like that, with dark whitty senses of humour and won't hesitate to set you in your place. lol
The only thing that I can honestly say about helping someone identify folks with NPD if they don't tell you themselves or maybe don't know it themselves, is simply - your gut feel. The false self is presented. Especially if you're a sensitive-type person, you listen to yourself and pay attention to your deep inner feelings, and it's amazing how many times it's right. Something might not feel quite right, maybe a little twitchy feeling, something might feel just a little out of place, might feel like a piece of the puzzle is missing, something might just irk you or nag a wee bit at the back of your brain - if that makes any sense!?!
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I tend to be more codependent/idealistic, too, though I could feel an NPD-ish aspect to myself before I became more fully aware of it.
I agree that the most severe and malignant are the covert types -- like my mother, grandmother, and aunts and myself to a certain extent. Even if it's not full-blown NPD, the way people defend against and retaliate against hits to their ego is much more insidious, to me, when it's covert.
I also agree about the importance of the gut feel. I "needed" to numb mine out as a child, so I didn't clue my female family members into the fact that I didn't trust them, which would have been an offense to their (caretaker) ego, which would have been "bad" for me -- meaning, I guess, that they would dump "bad"/shame on me.
None of this very conscious for them, I believe. Still hurtful.
My father likely had full-blown NPD but it was NOT covert. Lots of things about him were problematic but never so hurtful and confusing as what I got from the others. Again, I also believe there is wide variation in how people with NPD behave and interact with others that I don't see the literature taking into account.