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Old Jun 11, 2017, 01:12 PM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 10,966
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Anyway, she has verbally accepted responsibility and vowed to change. I say 'verbally' because only time will tell. As most people here would attest to, having a desire to change and actually changing are two very different things. So, anyway, while I believe that I said what I had to say very lovingly, I had no doubt that they were difficult things for her to hear.
I wonder if what she heard here was that it is her project to change herself, as opposed to our project, or her project, but with your complete support and helpfulness along the way. I wonder if she feels alone in needing to make these changes.

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Over the next few days I watched as she began falling into despair and self-hatred, culminating in her comment, three days after our talk, that she believes that I would be better off without her. That, btw, is about suicidal idealization not leaving me.
If she feels alone, she might have tried to make the changes for a few days but then concluded that she just could not do it alone. Realizing that she could not make the changes could make her feel hopeless, a burden on you, and suicidal.

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In probably the toughest thing I've ever had to say to her, I told her that I agreed, but that I didn't want a life without her and that making our relationship one in which I would not be better off without her is not only possible, but completely within her power. Fast forward five days...
The way this reads, to my ears, it gives the impression that changing herself is her project and and her project alone, and really not all that challenging to do either--it is completely within her power.

To what extent would you say that what I heard is what she heard?

There is a fine line between the empowerment that can arise in connection with being told something along the lines of You can do it! and the hopeless despair that can arise when one is told that this is their project, they need to do it on their own. What sort of message do you think that she heard? (which can well be different from what you said or tried to say).

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I told her that I agreed
There are times when one should not be completely candid and honest. This perhaps was one of those times.

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If she is not present, I'd rather do without. I've told her as much, recommended counseling which she has gone to sporadically, and carried on with life.
Again, I am wondering if sexual functioning is her project, you recommended counseling but I wonder if she ever heard that her sexual functioning and recovery was our project. Perhaps she did and it was. Still, it sounds like the commitment wasn't really there for whatever reason, as it sounds like therapy was sporadic at best.

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These sexual advances are clearly (to me) borne out of fear and desperation that our relationship is in jeopardy and in a desperate attempt to salvage it.
You have discussed them with her?

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However, that said, pushing her away, even as gently as humanly possible, is only going to add to her fear, insecurity and desperation.
Sexuality is not an either/or proposition: intercourse or nothing. Actually, there is room for a wide range of physical manifestations of affection. For this reason, you might think about whether there are ways that you can accept her advances without taking her to a place that she is psychologically unable to go.

Here, for example, is a video about nonsexual touch.



What would you think of not rejecting her, but saying that the two of you are not ready for intercourse right now, and so instead you would welcome basic touching with her such as is discussed on the video?

There is also something like this available:

Intimacy Without Intercourse | HealthyWomen

(without item 4 in their list, for now)

You could search for more, along the lines of advice for nonsexual touch/intimacy.

Right now, if I may ask, what sort of therapy (if any) is being undertaken by her, by you, and together as a couple?
Hugs from:
Sunflower123, yagr
Thanks for this!
Chyialee, Erebos, Sunflower123, TrailRunner14, yagr