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Old Jun 11, 2017, 02:06 PM
yagr yagr is offline
Poohbah
 
Member Since: Nov 2015
Location: spokane
Posts: 1,459
Bill,

You do realize that you're awesome right? Okay, with that out of the way, let's get to it...


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Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
I wonder if what she heard here was that it is her project to change herself, as opposed to our project, or her project, but with your complete support and helpfulness along the way. I wonder if she feels alone in needing to make these changes.
Initially, I didn't want to muddy the waters by bringing up the specific issues as I frequently write novels in place of posts and it is always a challenge for me to delineate what it crucial to be understood and what is superfluous. Looks like I missed the mark a bit here but let me correct that now.
One of the issues I brought up was spending. I have become disabled and my doctors have ordered me to stop working. Unfortunately, doing so will leave us homeless and we are currently living in a situation that is barely above homelessness. For instance, we have been living without running water or heat for about a year. In the last year I have had three heart attacks at work – I am not overstating my need to quit working.
In January, I drew up a savings plan which would allow me to quit working on December 1st of this year. The budget I proposed would begin on February 1st of 2017 and allow us to live on $2200 a month while saving an additional $2200/month. I should add that we own the home we live in (no city water available) so there is no rent. She agreed to the budget. We have saved less than $2500 as of today. Two weeks ago, prior to our talk, we received five packages in the mail – assorted items she purchased, all completely unnecessary and amounting to over $500. For instance, our water heater doesn't work. In order to fix it, which would only be an issue when we resolve the lack of water issue, a special wrench is going to be required. I assumed that the plumber would have one. She assumed that we should buy one, bid on two of them on Ebay, won them both and only then realized that each cost $50 in shipping costs. Total cost: $212. I need to stop working more than we need these wrenches. We have brought in approximately $20,000 since February 1st and have spent about $1100/week since then with no rent.
I began by asking her if she knew of any way that I could help her stick to the budget. She declined and said 'she's got this'. When it failed, I asked her if she would be willing to spend some time thinking about ways I might be able to help keep her on task to reach our goal. I offered to help by holding her money, she declined. I offered to write her a personal budget that allowed her some discretionary income during our last discussion and she agreed. I am working on that now and it will be ready later today.
Another issue, and one I'm reluctant to discuss but is the other life-threatening action, is her casual use of my prescription pain killers. She began by asking if she could have one for a horrible migraine. Then for an injury to her leg. Then... and I said yes. Because frankly, if I had asked her for one of hers then you can be darned sure that I was in so great a need that I probably should be in the hospital. It got to the point where she was taking far more than half and leaving me without sufficient meds to get through the month. I only discovered too late that last month she took 86 of my prescription for 120. I now leave my pills at work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
If she feels alone, she might have tried to make the changes for a few days but then concluded that she just could not do it alone. Realizing that she could not make the changes could make her feel hopeless, a burden on you, and suicidal.


nods This is the moment when she agreed to my working out that personal budget that I will be finishing today. Frankly, I think that it is an effort in futility as she has never shown the capacity to delay gratification on anything, but it is an effort that I am willing to give.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
The way this reads, to my ears, it gives the impression that changing herself is her project and and her project alone, and really not all that challenging to do either--it is completely within her power.

To what extent would you say that what I heard is what she heard?


Well, the pills are certainly within her power completely, although I have discussed my willingness to support her in seeking treatment if that is something she wanted. It isn't.
I do think that she believes that I will support her in any way that I can – and I simultaneously believe that yes, she heard that it is her project. I'm a bit torn at this point because I have supported her through many, many botched attempts to change unhealthy behaviors and there comes a time where she must take responsibility. Placing the responsibility for change squarely on her shoulders is the first time that I have done this but I am hopeful that my enthusiastic willingness to draw up this personal budget will be a sign that she is not in this by herself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
There is a fine line between the empowerment that can arise in connection with being told something along the lines of You can do it! and the hopeless despair that can arise when one is told that this is their project, they need to do it on their own. What sort of message do you think that she heard? (which can well be different from what you said or tried to say).
Again, I think she hears both – depending upon where she is at mentally at the time.
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I told her that I agreed
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Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
There are times when one should not be completely candid and honest. This perhaps was one of those times.
Understood. I thought long and hard before saying this and still do not know if this was the best response. Of course I had my reservations, and still do, but the situation was becoming desperate and unsustainable.
Again, I am wondering if sexual functioning is her project, you recommended counseling but I wonder if she ever heard that her sexual functioning and recovery was our project. Perhaps she did and it was. Still, it sounds like the commitment wasn't really there for whatever reason, as it sounds like therapy was sporadic at best.
The commitment wasn't there because it is difficult, and if she can run away from something difficult, she will. I did offer to go to counseling with her regarding that issue, but she declined the offer.
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These sexual advances are clearly (to me) borne out of fear and desperation that our relationship is in jeopardy and in a desperate attempt to salvage it.
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Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
You have discussed them with her?
Yes.
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However, that said, pushing her away, even as gently as humanly possible, is only going to add to her fear, insecurity and desperation.
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Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
Sexuality is not an either/or proposition: intercourse or nothing. Actually, there is room for a wide range of physical manifestations of affection. For this reason, you might think about whether there are ways that you can accept her advances without taking her to a place that she is psychologically unable to go.
Agreed. The extent of our physical contact is extremely minimal. We hold hands and give hugs quite often, but that is it. There is no cuddling in bed or on the couch watching a movie for instance – ever. When I have asked, it is extraordinarily awkward and short-lived. I am interested in the video links you have shared and will watch them when possible. I have no volume on my computer so it'll have to be watched elsewhere but I can manage it – though not today. Thank you for the links.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
What would you think of not rejecting her, but saying that the two of you are not ready for intercourse right now, and so instead you would welcome basic touching with her such as is discussed on the video?


I wasn't clear in my initial post. I have told her that I would love and welcome a physical relationship with her but I don't think that we are ready at this time. I brought this up during the conversation when I suggested counseling. Not only did I tell her that her dissociation was evidence to me that she was not ready, but shared too that I found her dissociation during physical contact triggering and I was not ready for it under these circumstances. I don't know if I've ever shared this on this sub-forum but I have DID due to prolonged sexual abuse as a child and though I am considered very high functioning, watching the woman I love check out when I touch her is damaging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
Right now, if I may ask, what sort of therapy (if any) is being undertaken by her, by you, and together as a couple?

I meet with my counselor once or twice a week. She meets with hers sporadically...it's been about three weeks but she has an appointment this Friday. Couples therapy has not been started and it is my belief, as well as my counselors and hers that we have a bit of a way to go before that is a beneficial idea.
Thanks so much for your response Bill.
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