yeah.. not sure i have it completely sorted out or that ive remembered everything.. i dont know if i need to... seems ive reconnected with the main foundations of the fall and thats adequate to get where i have... i still have those aha! moments..

i think there were two falls in my case.. the first at 15 wiped away everything i understood up to that date... over years i re-developed myself... tried to be those things i thought i "should" be.....

that collapsed about 30 -35 years old.....

it was this second collapse that i began to study Jungian type theories (though i didnt realize the Jung connection at the time) ...

i cant help but wander into my personal story at times, but i'd like to stay to topic and not wander into my individual experience too much... that can be and has been done elsewhere and isnt my purpose in this discussion..

anyone wanna talk about panantheism or any other subject related to the thread?

thanks everyone... thanks again s_e .....